@FHSHealth @MultiCareHealth Worst. Neighbors. Ever. About Time They Pay Taxes!

End the B&O and Property Tax Holiday for Non-Profit Mega-Hospital Corporations
posted Feb 14, 2012
tacoma, tacomic, Franciscan Health System, MultiCare, Hospitals, Tax-shelter, deadbeats
Sizes:   web  |  email  |  print

<< >>
Pulling ourselves out of the Eric-Anderson-shaped budget pothole, the city is going to need to find and restore new sources of revenue. I say we go after the white elephant in the room. I say we go after those corporate vampire-squid deadbeats over at Franciscan and Multicare. Think about it!  They're building all over the place, gobbling up our homes... so they're not going away anytime soon.  They laid off tons of employees and gave the CEO a humongous bonus.  And for goddess of commerce sake have you looked at a medical bill lately?   These guys are loaded sitting ducks on a treasure fleet headed to tax-shelter-topia.  This is by intelligent design thanks to lobbyists and E-Z bake politicians.  Now is the time for REVENGE!   Make them pay their fair share!  WHAT CAN YOU DO? Share your Franciscan/Multicare horror stories in the comment thread below.  Maybe our Tacoma City Council 2012 won't feel so bad taking them to task. MAKE THEM PAY!  


ONE TACOMIC T-TOWN T-SHIRT TO RULE THEM ALL meanwhile, I will award 1 free Tacomic T-shirt to the BRAVE UPS Student who glitter bombed Rick Santorum. Contact me! 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 2:15am
Commuting on the No. 2 bus every morning, I am used to seeing the working stiffs shuffling into St. Jose from the parking lot wearing pajamas and shower-caps.  I wasn't prepared last week or so watching a posse of scruffy security guards amassing around a visibly disturbed (transient?) woman wearing a fresh hospital wrist band... and slowly driving her into the street.  She kept throwing around a stack of white papers... picking them up and shouting. I took it as a grim reminder of how bad our healthcare in America sucks.  
Did you know it cost over 10K for my son's natural birth at St. Jose?  I guess that is pretty standard. 

by debivans on 2/14/2012 @ 7:30am
Medical emergency. 2 1/2 days @ St. Francis Hosp. No insurance. Bill: $45K. F-ing criminal!

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 8:03am
@debivans: I see EOB (Explanation of Benefits) bills all the time that are way higher than the payer (insurance) covers.  They, as a rule, bill high and collect what the insurance company will give them.  If they don't bill high, the insurance company will likely give them even less.  All bills are based on this principle.
My advise is to see what they'd take for your $45k bill.  It might surprise you.

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 8:12am
If you ever find yourself in a "saint" hospital, I suggest you transfer out.  Most of them I've worked with are run by a Catholic influenced committee or... board.  The doctor's job is practically to just diagnose the problem and the guidelines for treatment are determined by said committee.

The problem is also that they hold hands with the insurance protocols to run you through the system as inexpensively as possible to diminish bills.  For instance, if the doc determines you need Lipitor for your blood pressure but there's a myriad of generics to try first, they have to do the generics in order of what the committee has determined.  You may run through a host of different things to try before you finally get what you truly need.  They wait for you to complain at each stage to get to the next. Most of the time they knew right up front they should try "Brand X" but can't. Otherwise known as "Start low and go slow".

I could go on and on... problem after problem that people don't know they're even encountering. Our healthcare system is broken.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 8:13am
Wow, 45K is insane!!

Forgot a couple things:
1.  historical wedge neighborhood swiss cheese thanks to MultiCare
2.  And Because of MultiCare screwing over the JLO Elks Developer, we get a Walmart! 

by CaptainBritton on 2/14/2012 @ 8:21am
Multicare is a motherfu**er.

by swade2569 on 2/14/2012 @ 8:26am
Use insurance, insurance can automatically reduce the total based on "customary" charges.  Pay cash and you pay full amount with no reductions.  This is part of the nationwide problem, not just here.  The collusion of insurance companies and care-providing corporations is criminal.  

by swade2569 on 2/14/2012 @ 8:30am
Although I do have to say that Multicare is letting me carry a sizable bill for a surgery I had almost a year ago, finance and interest-free.  I have to make payments of course but at least I didn't have to use my credit card and incur interest on the debt.  

Regardless, they need to pay taxes like everyone else. Having the ability to carry a balance AND have them pay taxes should both be customary.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 8:36am
Facebook poll update: 

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 9:22am
FHS publishes a sliding scale fee table as required by state law and is based on federal poverty ratios. It allows for price reduction for family incomes up to 81,074 a year. Very generous looking and also state law. But there is an effort to clasify people as indigent permanently disabled to get medicaid & dshs payments( published policy) This causes legal issues and social stigma for patients as well as creates a built in financial gain for FHS to enroll patients onto social service programs regardless of their overall wealth. The sliding scale fee table is a fantasy they publish to fund raise at the yuck it up annual gathering and an facade to maintain "not for profit" status. Sick sick sick and more sick

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 9:29am
Included on our bill above and beyond tests and lab stuff was a $2500 a day charge for "bed"

by Anders on 2/14/2012 @ 9:43am
I'd encourage you to come to our council meeting tonight if you're concerned about this issue. The repeal of this tax break is scheduled for First Reading on tonight's agenda.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 9:53am
Was on my To Do list, but I forgot about date night and tickets to the burlesque show at Broadway Center for the performing arts.    You can also submit emails to the City Council!

email them a link to this cartoon if you are that kind of person! 

by fredo on 2/14/2012 @ 10:23am
  "Pulling ourselves out of the Eric-Anderson-shaped budget pothole, the city is going to need to find and restore new sources of revenue." RR

 Eric Anderson wasn't empowered to put the city in a "budget pothole." If the city is in a budget pothole then it got there by the mistakes made at the council level. These nine people have refused to acknowledge that the country has been in a recession and have been spending scarce funds on pet projects and unsustainable salary and benefit provisions for city employees.  What good will it do to shake down the few remaining employers in town if the council is just going to piss the new revenue away? Oh, and incidentally, any increase in the cost of hospitalization is going to be reflected in the cost or availability of services at either the local or federal level. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 10:27am
not a shake down.  just ending the free lunch. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 10:44am
even Marty had to break down and pay taxes!     I say the honeymoon period on this industry is over.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 10:46am
BREAKING!  Tacomic influenced ?!/FHSHealth/status/16949180...

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 10:47am
@Fredo I have some understanding of your position. FHS has crossed the line into farming dshs for money. Why not extend FHS's philosophy and just socialize healthcare? It cant be both ways where FHS is a private institution, with non profit status, but uses an economic model of billing dshs to get paid. Where is the charitable effort?

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 10:57am
I can see where Fredo is going about the Eric Anderon budget pothole...
maybe we'd be better off with Skeeter in charge of the money?

by CaptainBritton on 2/14/2012 @ 11:04am
The truth is, these are for-profit industries sucking a social teat. They should be taxed as such. Or, as Cissero said much better, just socialize the whole thing and cut the farce.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 11:12am
teats are for mammals, not corporations!

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 11:23am
I have had a few clinics go bankrupt because they took to many dshs people. The reimbursement rates are crap - and falling. Medicare has started down this path too. So no. The Franciscans aren't "farming" dshs for money.

Notice there aren't many walk in clinics in the poor areas... unless they've been there before that part of town was poor. If dshs were profitable there'd be more for profit walk in clinics in these places.

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 11:44am
@Jesse you are kinda correct, but I am not referring to st jo's liking dshs for a billing third party. They are low. I am referring to an analysis by st. Jo's of which third party can pay more then trying to get paid by that entity. If that is dshs, st jo's wants that money. If someone doesn't qualify for dshs, st. Jo's refers the bill back to the patient thereby avoiding applying the state required sliding scale fee table. I used to work in the health ins industry too and this is incredible even by my standards.

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 11:52am
Yes. Cashies always pay less.

With insurance, they bill high and accept low... much lower sometimes. An EOB (explanation of benefits) is a joke. They attempt to get as much as alotted as possible. Billing tact is whack!

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 12:03pm
I heard Seattle, Bellingham and Everett all tax their hospital non-profits. 

Does anyone think Swedish or Virginia Mason will leave Seattle?

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 12:06pm
Did FHS "gov affairs" lizard threaten leaving?

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 12:12pm
I think thats what their puppets at the chamber are implying.  that and slashing more jobs.  maybe even threatening to give the CEO another huge bonus too. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 12:14pm
Hard Times

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 12:15pm
The chamber is very knowledgeable about economic development, look around they are geniuses

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 12:27pm

by Erik on 2/14/2012 @ 12:31pm
There is no reason to give them an exemption.
The suggestion that a group functioning as a "non-profit" makes an entity more ethical or good is simply erroneous.
Better to have the hospitals pay their share than the City of Tacoma try to tax the flew fledging art organizations. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 12:35pm
render unto Caesar

by Anders on 2/14/2012 @ 1:22pm
For the record, Franciscan made $147 million and Multicare made $95 million in profits last year.

Those were net profits, so that means all expenses and charity care were taken into account. Both facilities routintely post 7%-12% profit margins, which are extremely comfortable for non-profits.

If the tax break was fully repealed, Multicare would pay an additional $2.2 million and Franciscan would be slightly over $1.5 million. Very bearable, in my opinion.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 1:28pm
how many police and fire fighters is that?  

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 1:29pm
In effect making them pay for their hilltop streetcar project...I like!

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 1:30pm
yeah!!!!   Streetcars!

by fredo on 2/14/2012 @ 1:30pm
Well if affordability is a factor in setting tax policy then perhaps we could repeal those city taxes which ordinary common folks can't really afford. And...for the record... how much will each hospital be paying if they respond to the new taxes by moving their facilities to locations outside the city limits? All the for-profit movie theaters have already moved outside the city limits so they won't be exposed to city taxes. Maybe the hospitals will follow. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 1:33pm
not going to happen.  all the empty movie theaters have been occupied by Mega Churches. These hospitals are trapped here!   Make them pay!!!

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 1:33pm
Streetcars to the emergency room! Ever been in their E.R.? Its effing crazy-town.

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 1:41pm
Good idea fredo. Maybe the county should make illegal the tax exemptions these hospitals get... then they'd have nowhere to go. No taxation race to the bottom that way.

by Anders on 2/14/2012 @ 2:13pm
RR, to answer your question the $3.6 million in total revenue generated would save about 36 jobs. For this year, we would have a half-annual collection of $1.8 million, or 18 jobs saved.

In general, for budgeting purposes one full-time position = $100,000.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 2:42pm
Another question...  who supplies the patients via ambulance ?     Is that TFD ?    Do we know where the majority of employees live?  Are they commuting in from Fircrest or University Place?  

by JesseHillFan on 2/14/2012 @ 2:48pm
One thing that I have learned in life is that it's not what you know that matters rather  WHO you know that matters.Once you invoke the right magic words (especially certain names) everything somehow magically becomes free or humongous problems all of a sudden disappear magically.I had a slight problem at Multicare (They wouldn't allow a general medical check up) and once I invoked a certain name all of a sudden not only was I seen to almost immediately but it also became free.This of course was just a minor example.I have invoked other magic words or names for much vastly larger issues and problems in other areas and any problem just disappeared like a puff of smoke which no one remembered afterwards other than me.You just have to know and be friends with the right people.Capice?

by fredo on 2/14/2012 @ 3:03pm
Well...what are the magic words?

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 3:06pm
"Say hello to my little friend, Mr. Laser ? "

by Maria on 2/14/2012 @ 3:32pm
Anders: "For the record, Franciscan made $147 million and Multicare made $95 million in profits last year.Those were net profits, so that means all expenses and charity care were
taken into account.
Both facilities routintely post 7%-12% profit margins, which are extremely comfortable for non-profits.
If the tax break was fully repealed, Multicare would pay an additional $2.2 million and Franciscan would be slightly over $1.5 million. Very bearable, in my opinion.

I'm for repealing the tax break, but--

The hospitals serve a valid public interest purpose (like theaters and art galleries). Tax breaks like these are in part a recognition of the community benefit from these kinds of "non-profit" institutions.Is it possible to tax these non-profits at an adjusted rate? It would make a smoother transition.

I'm thinking something similar to the downtown housing/condo tax breaks, except without a moratorium on the tax. This first year at 50% of the standard tax, the next year at 75%, then afterwards normal tax rate. It would give the institutions some time to budget in the increase, and for the economy to start making its way out of the slough.

The $147 & $95 million in net profits--is that at the Tacoma locations? Or do those figures reflect statewide earnings? If statewide, what were the profits just within Tacoma?

My anecdotal experience with both Multicare & the various St. Hospitals: even with health insurance, I spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years on broken fingers, sprains, torn hamstrings, etc. for my son the athlete. Both systems were exemplary in setting up payment plans, and in a few cases, completely forgiving the debt. I paid off surgery for an elbow-to-the-nose-at-basketball-camp for 4 years at around $25 a month. No interest, and no collection calls. I've found them to be way more compassionate and helpful than most businesses.

PS. I'm very much in favor of health care reform that restructures the crazy octopus of insurance billing / ER visits for people without a primary care physician. The amount of financial waste going towards paperwork & insurance compliance to navigate this broken system is a horrifying thought.

by Anders on 2/14/2012 @ 3:39pm
Of course they serve a valid public interest. Which is why the money they have should be going towards providing services to people instead of just accumulating in a large pile (or going to lavish executive benefits).
Again, after all their expenses and charity care these institutions still have tens of millions of dollars in net profits left over. What's a piddly couple million when you're dealing with 9 figure profit margins?

by Maria on 2/14/2012 @ 3:53pm
Anders, do you guys have a breakdown for the figures, i.e., is the $147 & $95 million in net profits at the Tacoma
locations, or across the system/statewide? Just wondering. Thanks!

I do think they should be taxed. Anyone who's able to pay their CEO's at that rate can afford to contribute a little more to the public welfare, especially when they're paying $0 right now.

I'm a little cautious about pursuing new streams of income--I know the city budget has been cut back severely. But new taxes can be like new credit cards. Sometimes it doesn't solve the foundational problem of over-spending.

by cisserosmiley on 2/14/2012 @ 4:01pm
I would be careful of accounting "charity care" dollars against their profits. Charity care is written off at an overblown rate (ask Jesse about billing vs actual payment). If st jo's bills $40,000 to a charity care write off column that same charge would only net them a fraction of that money based on insurance contracts and Medicaid payout schedule. Just one more way they creatively account for their "charity"

by fredo on 2/14/2012 @ 4:39pm
"I'm a little cautious about pursuing new streams of income--I know the city budget has been cut back severely. But new taxes can be like new credit cards. Sometimes it doesn't solve the foundational problem of over-spending." maria
Great comment Maria, best comment of the last few days actually. I think you get the big picture.

by Jesse on 2/14/2012 @ 4:41pm
cisserosmiley is right.  It's super hard to tell what numbers are accurate or not because billing is such crazy process.  I'd assume their numbers for profit, amount of "charity", write-offs, etc are way skewed too.

by NineInchNachos on 2/14/2012 @ 4:42pm
no more free parking garages/lots for corporations!

also thank you all for your comments. Lots of stuff to think about... spawning new/improved cartoon ideas

by NineInchNachos on 2/16/2012 @ 9:55am

also  follow up on my facebook tacomic post: 
RR Anderson Yes... shouldn't have any competition with Valentines Burlesque show at Broadway Center. How did it go? Did they get my cartoon?

Anders Ibsen Impressive turnout, and much love for the Cthulhu Bishop Tacomic from me and a few other Councilmembers. See you then. And bring your friends!!! There is no excuse for not having a legion of concerned citizens there next week.

by NineInchNachos on 2/20/2012 @ 8:09pm
make them pay!

by NineInchNachos on 2/21/2012 @ 8:18am
interesting comment from FB..
Mike Plaid Be prepared for internal retaliation if this resolution passes in the form of higher fees for patients, layoffs, and overall cuts to employees. Taking their cue from the 1% nationally, The bosses at Multicare and Franciscan are already running attacks against their workers under the guise of the economic crisis and what our Democratic governor Christine Gregoire calls "hard choices", or running savage cutbacks against working people and the poor while the fortunes of the wealthy and their representatives are completely left untouched. We often times see the same sort of retaliation by employers when the state or federal minimum wage is raised, which usually results in a streams of layoffs immediately afterwords. Just like in this case, appearances are deceiving. The employer's reprisal always appears as if their hands were "forced" by competition in the market and rising overhead costs due to the constant meddling of big government, unions, or whatever convenient scapegoat the wealthy see fit at the time. But in reality they are simply protecting their own piece of the pie by lashing out and sowing further confusion in the ranks of working people ("we can't fight for higher wages/minimum wage, the company can't afford it", etc), further perpetuating the domestic race to the bottom. With Multicare and Co. the I think it is even easier to see. The top managerial brass of these companies are millionaires, and they've become so not only on the backs of the sick and dying, but also behind the organizational facade of "non-profit". To me the only real "non-profit" system is a government run single payer healthcare system on par with France or the United Kingdom. The rhetorical and otherwise non-confrontational term "quality care" utilized by both the healthcare unions and the industry at large means nothing without the call for healthcare as a human right, because when it comes down to it "quality care" has always been available for those that are rich enough to afford it. Anyway, I whole heartily support this tax, and the joining amendment that narrows it further. But we need to prepare ourselves against any acts of vengeance brought on by our encroachment on the mountain of profit these fucking vampires have hoarded for themselves.

by NineInchNachos on 2/21/2012 @ 8:19am
Joy Bonney i agree with the idea of caps on what non-profit ceo's are allowed to make, hell ALL CEO's! in answer to your concern, YMCA won't be affected, I don't believe they gross more then 30 million a year

by NineInchNachos on 2/21/2012 @ 9:14am
also, I heard MultiCare was going to print this cartoon off as a coloring activity for the children's hospital.  

by cisserosmiley on 2/21/2012 @ 9:32am
I heard FHS is accelerating their fundraising efforts to support a new RR memorial clinic where billing will be honest and lawyers defer medical advice to MD's

by NineInchNachos on 2/21/2012 @ 10:30pm
62 years of corporate freeloading OVER
thanks for being brave Tacoma City Council

by Anders on 2/21/2012 @ 10:34pm

Well, it's technically only 25% over. But we're definitely going to work on that.

by NineInchNachos on 2/21/2012 @ 10:45pm
every little bit helps.  

by NineInchNachos on 2/22/2012 @ 10:21am
poor Chamber of Commerce.  Nobody listens to them.

maybe Mayor Strickland can make it up to them with another digital billboard ad? 

by Jeffersonian on 2/22/2012 @ 10:48am
This cartoon isn't the half of it. Want to know how evil MultiCare and Franciscan really are? Check this out -

by NineInchNachos on 2/22/2012 @ 2:14pm
kinda painful to watch.  

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 8:19am
make them pay!

is that one of Fredo's children? 

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 8:32am

LIttle girl gets high marks for willingess to engage in public speaking.Her comments were basic liberal rubbish. Probably her teacher wrote them for her.

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 9:22am
I agree with Fredo about where she got her comments...but that does not make them rubbish.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 9:25am
what if she is just a supergenius  and these are no-brainer ideas?  

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 9:44am

We know she's not a super genius. She attended the council meeting to provide tesitmony on an evening when public testimony isn't being allowed. A super genius would read the agenda beforehand.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 9:48am
OR she new that, and managed to hack the system with her adorableness to give public testimony anyway...  diabolical ! 

by Jesse on 2/29/2012 @ 9:50am
"...and these are no-brainer ideas?"  --RR


by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 9:54am
  "I think people should be taxed only on things that aren’t necessary for life like jewelry." 

Well the little girl is on to something here. She would remove taxes from neccessities like utility services such as water, natural gas, electric, waste collection, sewage, and surface water distribution. She would also remove sales taxes which pay for Sound Transit and Pierce Transit. She would remove excise taxes that make it difficult for poor people to obtain housing.

I'm OK with taxes on jewelry myself.   

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 9:57am
I wish WE could, just once, have a fruitful discussion about liberal v conservative policies.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 9:59am
Taxes on jewelry seconded! 

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 9:59am

The little girl is concerned about the funding arrangements for her school program. Her teacher probably should have advised her to speak at a School District Board meeting. The Tacoma City Council doesn't have anything to do with the disbusement of school funds.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 10:01am
diabolical ! 

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 10:07am
Even hand made Tacoma Urban Gems jewelry? Ok but a luxury tax on illustrations is in order!!!

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 10:12am
Fimo Jewelry Tax exempt loophole!

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 10:13am

She mentioned jewelry specifically so we would have to conclude she meant Urban Gems as well. She also favors a steep tax on all other things not "necessary for life." This would probably include all artisitic efforts. Unfortunately, special programs for gifted children are not a "necessity," so her parents should probably be paying a special "luxury school enrichment program tax." Little girl solves her own problem. 

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 10:19am
  Someone explain to her the law of unintended consequences.

After Tacoma enacts it's new "luxury tax on jewelry" all the local jewelry stores move their operations to just outside the city borders. This makes it impossible to actually collect any luxury taxes and also makes it impossible to collect any currently existing taxes. Then revenues fall and the schools are forced to cut special programs. The utopian world awaits you little girl!

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 10:53am
Laurie Jinkins just testified for the new capital gains tax for WA state...can Tacoma charge a city capital gains tax?

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 10:56am
businesses move, we annex the land under their new location for god and country.  Win-win.

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 10:59am
Condo-Hospital? Genius!

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 11:00am

If the libs would spend as much effort rooting out waste fraud and abuse as they do trying to find new things to tax we could have all the services we want with current funding levels. 

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:04am
waste fraud and abuse.   good one.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:05am
hey look out!  Voter Fraud!   here is another one...  Illegal Aliens stealing our Jobs!    

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:06am

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 11:09am
  "Because we spend a lot of tax money to defend our country, and rich people need to be defended more because they have more to lose.  Rich people consume more resources." Serena

Oh, little Serena is learning a valuable introduction indeed... in the use of class warfare from her uber liberal teacher, Komrad Kasper. Those "rich" people are consuming all the resources, see how simple it is? I wonder if Serena's family would like to try living in East Tacoma or perhaps on Hilltop so they could demonstrate their special form of egalitarianism?

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:13am
Ask little Serena how many rich kids did they send to invade Iraq?    Class War should be taught in all public schools.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:16am
Parents who want to shield their children in an alternate reality can pay for private school.

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 11:20am
  Ask little Serena how many armed forces were conscripted to serve and how many walked into a recruiting office and volunteered.

And while we're at it, why don't we ask little Serena why she read remarks that were basically scripted by her 'teacher' Komrad Kasper? Simple. People will perk up when they see an adorable little waif.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:27am
How many people walk into a recruiting office to escape the ghetto ? 

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 11:31am
Lots of ways to escape the "ghetto."


Miss Kasper never did too well with boys so she decided to spend the
rest of her life spreading the doctrine of class warfare and hate to impressionable little girls.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 11:35am
what in teh world fredo

by cisserosmiley on 2/29/2012 @ 11:39am
If she's a girl scout leader too Fredo might have a point

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 11:44am

I can only wonder if the city council would have given similar high marks if the little girl had presented a three minute lecture on the failure of the council to exercise prudent fiscal measures and it's inability to deliver high value services to the taxpayers in a cost effective manner.  Probably they read her remarks before inviting her to speak.

by Non Sequitur on 2/29/2012 @ 2:11pm
It's both amusing and frightening to watch the racism and classism here.

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 2:16pm
Little Serena introduced the topic of class warfare. Please read her message to the council.  

RR talked about Ghettos but I know RR and he's no racist.

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 3:03pm
I refuse all arguments made by sock puppets.

by Non Sequitur on 2/29/2012 @ 3:12pm
The resual to acknowledge the existence of racism and classism are in and of themselves racist and classist actions, you silly goose.

by fredo on 2/29/2012 @ 4:06pm
  "The resual to acknowledge the existence of racism and classism are in and of themselves racist and classist actions"  NS 

Nobody resualed to acknowledge the exitence of racism and classism. Nobody brought up racism and only little Serena brought up classism. Read the text of her speech yourself.   

by NineInchNachos on 2/29/2012 @ 4:43pm

by low bar on 2/29/2012 @ 10:38pm
fredo makes me want to tear a page out of notes from underground and smoke it

by NineInchNachos on 3/2/2012 @ 10:38am
so.  where is all that benevolent debt forgiveness  the suits were blabbering about at the council meeting?

American Healthcare System is broken

by cisserosmiley on 3/2/2012 @ 10:43am
Financial assistance from healthcare systems is almost is a dollar swap scheme to reduce overall income number from being so HUGE!!!

by NineInchNachos on 3/2/2012 @ 10:50am
"Dewald’s co-workers want to help her with her living expenses and hefty medical and rehabilitation bills. They’ll have a benefit cut-a-thon from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Sunday. No appointment is necessary, and they ask for a minimum $20 donation. The salon is at 2713 Sixth Ave."
Read more here:
I feel bad for the folks who can't organize a hair cutting marathon to help pay off outrageous medical bills.

by cisserosmiley on 3/2/2012 @ 10:54am
Can we give a $20 without getting a "boroque du" on my head?

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/2/2012 @ 9:09pm
So, this is a true story. No hyperbole or exaggerations.

When I was 22, I ended up with a very bad bleeding ulcer. Bad enough that it required a 4 day hospital stay at St. Joe's and 5 units of blood transfused.
At the time, I had the crappy News Tribune insurance (worked there at the time). Well, hospital stays are expensive. And so it a transfusion. And did you know it's even more if you have an uncommon blood type?
Anyway, after insurance my share was $19,000.

No way I could pay that, as I was making only $20K a year at the time.
I appealed to the hospital for financial assistance. They sent me a form, I filled it out. Heard NOTHING back for a couple weeks, and the bills started saying scary things like "final notice" and such.
I called and got the run-around.

Then I got a certified letter in the mail.
Due to the amount owed and my own income, they forgave the entire amount.

Before anyone bashes ST Joe's for being greedy, try asking for financial help. No guarantees, but hell. At least ask. I'm glad I did.

by fredo on 3/3/2012 @ 7:53am

Your story, if true Thorax, pretty much invalidates all the comments from the health care haters including RR Thanks for the posting. 

by NineInchNachos on 3/3/2012 @ 9:16am
so should everybody just not pay their bill?   why does FHS continue to terrorize people till the last second?  Sounds like a gangster holding people upside down, shaking... and instead of money falling out of the pocket a moth flaps out...   what other option do they have other than to let you go? OH THANK YOU GANGSTER YOU ARE SO NICE!

by fredo on 3/3/2012 @ 9:46am
People who get a past due notice from Franciscan are being "terrorized?"

Well that certainly gives a new meaning to the term terrorized.

I got a notice from Pierce County that I still owed a property tax payment from last year. Were they "terrorizing" me. I also have overdue notices on occasion from City Light, Puget Sound energy, and Sprint Cellular. Were they terrorizing me?  

by NineInchNachos on 3/3/2012 @ 10:03am
is your cellphone a matter of life or death?

by fredo on 3/3/2012 @ 10:10am

Is the provision of living arrangements and utilities a matter of life and death? Yes, I would say they are. Will these creditors extend $20K worth of services to people with no credit then write off the bill? Nope

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/3/2012 @ 1:05pm
100% true. I'll even swear on the holy book of your choice.

by Jesse on 3/3/2012 @ 2:10pm
Real example from medical device sales:

1. Patient gets device from device company
2. Insurance gets billed $2100
3. Insurance says, "no, I'll give you $375"
4. Company says yes and writes off the difference of $1725 from their taxes
5. At 33% tax rate, $1725 in write off equals $569.25 in real hard money not paid in taxes
6. Device company gets a total benefit of $944.25

Medical industry always bills high and collects low.  Why?  Can you see that the 33% from above is basically imaginary money that essentially comes from the fuzzy math supplied?

Now replace all numbers with what Thorax supplied, as percentages. It's all possible the hospital actually MADE money by forgiving his debts. Can you also see where if Thorax paid or didn't, the hospital still received *payment* on paper?

Also, because of the fact that there are enough people (see; people with insurance) actually paying bills with real hard deposit-able money, they have the cash to stay open and pay their *real* bills.

This is why the tax increase may not even matter one bit. They'll *pay* for it with accountant tricks like above. Don't be shocked if next year both big hospitals claim they lost money. Anyone want to take that bet?

by fredo on 3/4/2012 @ 8:03am

Is this "medical "device  an Austin Powers (tm)  Penis Enlarger? Behave Jesse!

by Jesse on 3/4/2012 @ 10:10am
No.  For a living, I rep a couple of medical devices. My flagship device helps people to get off of narcotics/opiates/muscle relaxers.  I know the games insurance, hospitals, and even your doctor play.  It's scary.  If people only knew half of the crap that goes on behind the scenes, we'd have "Medicare for All" in a matter of months.

But I did get a call from a lady in Proctor wanting to know if I had penis pumps. She wouldn't tell me who her husband was but she said I could refer to him as "tree_guy". =)

by fredo on 3/4/2012 @ 10:30am

I think what you said previously is that you sell a product with a price tag of $2100 but you will take $375 for it. Sounds like your company has a markup in excess of 600% on this device. Maybe if you lowered the price to $375 you wouldn't have to constantly go through this billing charade. Just an idea.

by NineInchNachos on 3/4/2012 @ 11:10am
educate us Jesse!  

by Jesse on 3/4/2012 @ 1:47pm
@fredo:  I don't control the pricing.  Besides, if I did, I wouldn't change it.  If we billed for what we need, we'd end up with around 25% of that.  Like it or not, it's just how it works.  If we get lucky and get 50% of the asking price of $2100, from the insurance companies, it merely makes up for the people who cannot afford a penny for the device -- and there are plenty that get given away.  We have a cut and dry straight forward policy for cash patients.

Refer to my example at 3/3/12 at 2:10pm.

I cannot guarantee the hospitals do this type of charade on overall profit/loss statements, but they do it with the everyday bills I know for sure.

by fredo on 3/4/2012 @ 2:32pm
  I did read your example. But I don't understand it.  

You have a device that retails for $2100... but nobody pays this price. Insurance companies get a huge discount and customers who pay cash money also get a lower price. And if people don't have insurance or money they get them for free. No matter what you get for the device the company gets a substantial tax write off for the difference between the selling price and the asking price. Is that pretty much it?

That sounds illegal.  

If nobody pays full retail ($2100) then why don't you just increase the price and that would give your company an even greater tax write off. For example, if the units were priced at $1m, then you could show a loss of over $998,000 on every device.

by Jesse on 3/4/2012 @ 5:34pm
Do you really think a night in the hospital costs thousands?  How about $65k for a month of chemo?  Perhaps thousands for birth control?

My examples are how they arrive at those BS numbers.

That's why Medicare Part B prescription drugs will be cut in Obamacare.  They are merely going to start negotiating prices for drugs.  Now, they are paying full asking price -- a gift to big pharma courtesy of GW Bush.  You will get the Medicare cuts but no cuts in service or quality.

I don't make the rules fredo! This is just how it is!

by cisserosmiley on 3/4/2012 @ 11:05pm
We had an experience like thorax, but after filling out the forms the bills piled up and we called them and they said they disqualified our application but could re-apply. We had to fill out all the forms again. They said they will not give us any financial aid but said we could write an appeal letter. We wrote an appeal letter and never heard anything until more we called the billing people. They said the appeal was "under review" but the director had failed, for unknown reasons, to put a hold on our billing. It has been since the middle of august.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 8:04am
completely arbitrary and evil.  seems to be the problem with benevolent dictators.  

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 12:06pm
I greatly enjoyed this NPR program..

has a really good post-apocalyptic feel.See something like this happening in T-town? 

by cisserosmiley on 3/5/2012 @ 12:30pm
This sounds like most of my life in could happen again because in my memory of Tacoma there has been more times like Trenton and very few times like Seattle.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 12:37pm
Thanks for the few times we  were like Seattle, Norm Dicks!

by cisserosmiley on 3/5/2012 @ 12:40pm
Thanks for the few times we were like seattle, Debbie Regala!

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 12:51pm
her too!

by Non Sequitur on 3/6/2012 @ 1:27pm
Eh, I wouldn't be thanking anyone for "Seattle Moments".

by NineInchNachos on 4/18/2012 @ 5:10pm
oh the bastards

by cisserosmiley on 4/18/2012 @ 10:15pm
I told you they were shankin folks.

by NineInchNachos on 5/14/2012 @ 7:42pm
remember to call!

it's like printing money!

by NineInchNachos on 5/14/2012 @ 8:09pm
is nothing sacred MultiCare?

by The Jinxmedic on 5/15/2012 @ 7:48am
I told you this was coming, but nobody listened. Again.

by NineInchNachos on 5/15/2012 @ 8:04am
do a crow toon!

by The Jinxmedic on 5/15/2012 @ 8:10am
Don't worry, it's already done.

by cisserosmiley on 5/15/2012 @ 10:44am
Billing Update: after convincing Franciscan that the RCW concerning fair billing practice DID IN FACT APPLY TO THEM, (ya!) the hospital settled our bill for the exact price the RCW required...BUT, apparently the e room docs have formed their own corporate structure, and the attending doc is his own corporation. Both are attempting to separate themselves from Franciscan and continue billing us separate from the hospital (not ya! criminal!).

by NineInchNachos on 5/31/2012 @ 8:27am
don't be a jerk Multi Care! 

by NineInchNachos on 5/31/2012 @ 8:28am
also missed this one... 

by NineInchNachos on 9/11/2012 @ 8:00pm
good news - Historic church could be saved!

bad news - mars hill church is a freaky ass right wing military cult

by Erik on 9/11/2012 @ 9:14pm
I don't go to church much.  However, bringing these church folks in will increase diversity in downtown.

Come back in from the suburbs!

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 1:03pm
from my bookface....

Anders Ibsen: There
is a very irresponsible ordinance scheduled for First Reading next
Tuesday. If passed, it would make the repeal of Franciscan's/Multicare's
tax breaks expire after 2014. In other words, they would get their tax
breaks back in 2015. This would cost the city almost $6 million - or 6
fire stations, for reference. If you're concerned about this, I would
encourage you to contact your Councilmembers, and attend next Tuesday's
council meeting to speak at public comment.

+ + +

from a link I posted to this NPR story about corporate non persons using their non-profit status to rake in millions in profits...

by cisserosmiley on 11/14/2012 @ 1:25pm
Who brought this up for hearing ???  I would hate to call my council member & find out its their ordinance.

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 1:27pm
please do!

by cisserosmiley on 11/14/2012 @ 1:28pm
Is it? Was it? Who's it?

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 2:22pm
next Tuesday.  Joe Lonergan will introduce a bill or whatever that will give back FHS and Multicare their huge subsidy.  please email, call, or show up to the pubic comment period asking your city council representative that all huge corporate personhoods should pay their fair share.   Why does Multicare get a special deal that Lincoln Hardware doesn't ?  

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 4:27pm
wont somebody hear the suffering cries to the executives?

"Executives of Tacoma’s two health care giants asked the council to
scuttle a plan to raise $5.5 million by removing a business tax
exemption for nonprofit hospitals."

more here:

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 4:34pm
“People are losing their jobs and yet we had two CEOs stand up here tonight and say, `I don’t want to chip in,’” said Joe Cote, a retired nurse and longtime Tacoma resident. “I find that reprehensible.”

Read more here:

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 5:21pm
  "we had two CEOs stand up here tonight and say, `I don’t want to chip in,’”

That's a lie. They didn't say that.

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 6:20pm
it's not a lie.. from a certain point of view

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 6:23pm

  They didn't say that. So claiming they did would be a lie. 

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 6:39pm
to paraphrase is a lie we all struggle with.

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 6:54pm

  Right there. I guess that paraphrase was a lie.

by low bar on 11/14/2012 @ 7:28pm
Freedom to operate your business in public isn't free. You gotta chip in. America isn't a turnstile CEO's can just jump and let all the the other passengers pay. No one is above the law. We need strict enforcement and boycotts for those that try to get a free financial ride at the top. Just look at the Macy's Trump affair. People have the power to destroy any business they want. Papa John's founder is set to lose millions. Fuck us? No, fuck you. 

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 7:29pm
I think what the execs said was that they provide lots of CHARITY care (that means free or reduced price) and therefore they have been traditionally awarded lower TAX RATES. 

Maybe you should tell those execs that they need to pay the same TAX rates as other businesses and that we don't need their CHARITY care. Apparently you'd prefer that the hospitals turn poor people away at the door and stop with the charitable care.

If that's what you want RR, why don't you just say so?

by cisserosmiley on 11/14/2012 @ 7:56pm
Fredo, "charity care" is a state requirement. City/hospital relations are seperate arrangements.

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 8:07pm
I was just paraphrasing what the execs told the city council.

I guess if the council wants to get all snarky with that "charity care is a state requirement" business, then the hospitals might just reduce their Tacoma footprint and open up outside the city limits just like all the movie theaters did to avoid Tacoma taxes.  

by Anders on 11/14/2012 @ 8:28pm
The notion that paying their fair share of taxes would impair Multicare's or Franciscan's ability to offer charity care is completely disingenous. I have read their financial statements and IRS forms. Multicare's net profit in 2010 was over $9.5 million. That's AFTER charity care, and all other expenses.

Paying one or two million dollars is chump change for these entities.Taking away $6 million from the city budget (which a sunset provision would do) would be the equivalent of closing 6 fire stations or laying off 30 police officers.

If you consider the fact that these healthcare networks are already highly profitable and NOT in need of taxpayer assistance, how can anyone's conscience be alright with $6 million in extra cuts that could be avoided?

by Anders on 11/14/2012 @ 8:33pm

And fredo: Tacoma is actually getting a new movie theater in Point Ruston. It was originally going to be built on Ruston's side, but they decided to move to the Tacoma side because they found our planning staff to be much more responsive. According to the developer, the movie theater acknowledged the 5% admission tax they would have to pay in Tacoma as a result...and couldn't care less about it.

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 8:52pm
  . "According to the developer, the movie theater acknowledged the 5% admission tax they would have to pay in Tacoma as a result...and couldn't care less about it." anders

They "couldn't care less" about the 5% admission tax? is that an exact quote from the developer, or did you just paraphrase it?  

What did the developer get from the city of Tacoma?

by Anders on 11/14/2012 @ 9:01pm
The exact quote that my friend who is working on the development told me the movie theater relayed to him re: the admission tax: "How much is it? 5%? Oh, that's no big deal."

The movie theater wanted a quick, convenient permitting process, just like any other business. Tacoma did a better job offering that than Ruston did. It's that simple.

by NineInchNachos on 11/14/2012 @ 9:45pm
if hospitals want to self-deport to fife...  that would be very funny.  You know how many historic churches they would have to demolish again?  well probably not very many in fife.

by Anders on 11/14/2012 @ 9:48pm
And one more thing: are people in Tacoma suddenly going to stop getting sick because of changing tax rates?

Because last I checked, hospitals are businesses. And businesses respond to demand. Seattle never had a B&O exemption for non-profit hospitals, and you don't see Swedish or Virginia Mason leaving town, do you?

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 11:08pm
Anders, you are comparing the willingness of a NEW business to pay a tax rate that's been in existance for a long time (the admissions tax) to the reluctance of an existing business to pay a NEW DIFFERENT steeper tax rate (the hospital rate).

If your movie theater opens up and willingly pays the 5% and in a couple of years you think they are making lots of money perhaps you will suggest that the admissions tax needs to be raised to 10% or 20%. I wonder if the theater owner you are using as an example will continue to say "I couldn't care less about it."  I'll bet he would fight to keep the admissions tax at 5%.

What about it? Should the theater owner object to paying a higher admissions tax once he's already opened up his business?

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 11:16pm

Maybe the reason 2 large hospitals located here in Tacoma was the perception that Tacoma had a favorable tax arrangement.

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 11:18pm
 " if hospitals want to self-deport to fife... that would be very funny. You know how many historic churches they would have to demolish again? well probably not very many in fife"

Why would that be funny?

This sort of shopping for the best tax location happens all the time. Why do you think that car dealers and movie theaters choose locations outside Tacoma city limits. Wake up RR.

by fredo on 11/14/2012 @ 11:27pm
And another thing about the movie theater, Anders.

Is it going to pay family level wages with full benefits and advancement opportunities, or is it just going to be a bunch of low wage jobs that result in the employees filing for government entitlements and insurance?.

I hope you aren't going to tell us that you made it easy for a low wage business come into Tacoma. I remember you were fighting to keep another low wage business out of our town.

What is it? A high wage or low wage business?

by Erik on 11/15/2012 @ 12:27am
From the City of Tacoma:

What hospitals are impacted by taxes in jurisdictions that charge
B&O tax to non-profit healthcare including hospital districts?

taxes non-profit healthcare organizations, except those that have a
religious affiliation. Staff reported they are not aware of Bellingham
ever providing non-profit healthcare organizations a deduction.
Bellingham currently has one hospital, St. Josephs/Franciscan, that is
religiously affiliated and therefore exempt from City B&O tax. They
have several non-profit healthcare clinics in the City that do remit
B&O tax as they are not religiously affiliated.

taxes non-profit hospitals, except those that have a religious
affiliation. Staff reported that they are not aware of Seattle ever
providing non-profit healthcare organizations a deduction. Non-profit
hospitals in Seattle include Virginia Mason, Swedish Medical Center and
the Seattle Children’s Hospital. Currently they do not have any
non-profit hospitals with religious affiliations.

has indicated that they do not tax non-profit hospitals, which is a
change from the original communication we received.


by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 7:31am
Tacoma economic development mantra:

When a movie theater describes Tacoma's tax structure as "no big deal'...that's a good thing

When Walmart describes Tacoma tax structure as "no big deal"...that's a bad thing.

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 7:32am
if hospitals paid their fair share, you could fill a lot of potholes?  maybe their emergency vehicles could recoup the cost on maintenance ?

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 7:33am
did walmart say that?  liar!!!

by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 8:00am

  ha, paraphrase RR paraphrase

by low bar on 11/15/2012 @ 8:23am
I think I figured it out. A conservative's only means to an existence now is to be a bother the rest of the country that's already progressed passed the age of trickle down. 

In other words, a conservative's only existence here on feedtacoma is dependent on people who respond to their nonsense on the future of Tacoma's public works.  

The Governor elect is a democrat and always will be. The state has been blue since before I can remember. Heck, weed is now legal. Why even give a crap what necrophiliacs of the dead conservative movement think in this state? 

I mean, conservatives can talk all they want. Not like anyone is ever going to vote for them anymore. 

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 8:25am

Dear RR,


Are you concerned about cuts to vital city services like public safety or street repair?

Did you know that the city is currently subsidizing two giant
"non-profits" with money that could be spent preserving those services?

Yes, it’s true. Multicare and Franciscan are two giant hospital
networks that receive $6 million every budget cycle from Tacoma
taxpayers. According to IRS documents, city Tax and License forms, and
their own financial paperwork, both Franciscan and Multicare are making
tens of millions in net profits every year. Their top executives are also highly compensated, making millions of dollars each in base salary.


One CEO even has her country club fees paid for by the hospital she works for! (And in extension, with your tax dollars.)


They do not need taxpayer assistance.

Our current budget for 2013-2014 fully repeals this tax break, freeing
up $6 million to preserve core city services. However, Deputy Mayor Joe
Lonergan has proposed giving this tax break back to Multicare and
Franciscan! This would be accomplished by a "sunset," meaning the tax
break would come back after 2014.

Please help save city services by showing up next Tuesday at City
Council to testify at public comment. Tell the Deputy Mayor and the rest
of the Council that the tax break repeal "sunset" for big hospitals is
unacceptable, and that the money should go towards core city services
like public safety and roads instead. Council starts at 5:00 PM, and is
located on the first floor of 747 Market Street.

If you’re not able to show up to City Hall next Tuesday, please email these council members with a personal message:

Deputy Mayor Joe Lonergan,

Councilmember Lauren Walker,

Councilmember Marty Campbell,
Councilmember Victoria Woodards,

Councilmember David Boe,

Finally, please consider writing a letter to the editor in the News Tribune. You can do so online at this link:

Thanks for helping our city! If we fight together, we can overcome the powerful special interests that hold us back.

by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 8:50am
unsigned email, sounds like spam

by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 9:02am
when the taxpayers subsidize some CEO's country club membership...that's a bad thing

when the taxpayers subsidize spiro manthous vacation to Arizona...that's a good thing

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 9:53am
i love how you need to break things down into binary choices? 

reminds me of the space ghost coast to coast quote: "I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

even so,  nobody said Spiro Manthou was a good or bad thing.  Spiro just IS

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 9:54am
(Spiro the only treasurer-assessor candidate to endorse Mike Lonergan)

by cisserosmiley on 11/15/2012 @ 9:57am
That is bad too.  pointing out other failures is good.  let's remember to keep seperate issues seperate & endeavor to call out bad behavior whenever it happens. 

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 10:02am

by cisserosmiley on 11/15/2012 @ 10:02am
It feels like some Tacoma conservatives think that by inverting our B&O philosophy we will be transformed into's just not true. Tacoma is Tacoma. 

Will Deputy Spir0 get a job as mike Lonergan's assistant?

by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 10:18am
  When the city council is deciding if it should allow WalMart to open, yes or no, that's a binary decision.

When the city council encourages a developer to open a movie theater for the purpose of paying low wages that's a binary decision.

I think most decisions at the city council are binary, that's why they vote yea or nay.

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 10:23am
you're just a binary girl living in a binary world

by fredo on 11/15/2012 @ 10:24am

pretty soon you'll recognize that you are too.

by NineInchNachos on 11/15/2012 @ 10:30am

by The Jinxmedic on 11/15/2012 @ 11:18am

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 7:56am
Make them pay!  Time to take of the training wheels

give the tax break to somebody else who needs it.

by fredo on 11/20/2012 @ 8:02am
Agree,let's give the b&o tax break to every business. That would be a good way to grow our economy.

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 8:04am
If your business has its own helicopters you probably don't need a tax break. 

by fredo on 11/20/2012 @ 8:22am
You are in a position to evaluate the needs of businesses?

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 8:40am
yes!  as a small business entrepreneur it is super annoying learning about the B&O tax code that Multicare and FHS did not have to pay.

by fredo on 11/20/2012 @ 8:47am
As a small business entrepreneur YOU didn't pay any b&o tax either...not one penny.

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 8:51am
well we haven't gotten started yet so yeah you are correct... but when we do we will.  If Lincoln Hardware has to so will we.

by fredo on 11/20/2012 @ 8:59am
The b&o tax threshold in Tacoma is a quarter million dollars per year.
Your cartooning and recycled art supply business is going to gross over a quarter million per year?
What does Lincoln Hardware have to do with your business?  

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 9:01am
you never know.  it could happen.

by fredo on 11/20/2012 @ 9:29am
I know, lets have the council institute a new cartoonist and creative business b&o tax category that applies a .40 tax on all cartoonist and creative business type income! that way you could begin paying the b&o tax like you said you wanted. why wait till your business does $250K per year. Just ask your friend anders to make a new category that will allow the taxes to apply to you.  

by NineInchNachos on 11/20/2012 @ 9:31am
I should start shopping for helicopters

ANY WAY.... I jumped the gun today is first reading of Joe Lonergan's bill to sunset the B&O tax on the mega-hospitals. It should still be a fun meeting. looking forward to the exit133 write up.

by NineInchNachos on 11/27/2012 @ 8:22am
Go Chamber!   Small Business Saturday Doormats !