Ocryx and Joe

Ocryx and Joe visit the camp

There are some others that have been occupying public and private lands for some time, but they don't seem to get very much press...
posted Dec 14, 2011
Camping in the cold- some don't have a choice
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It's cold out there. Share some food, socks, or gloves. Show a little bit of caring, make just a little bit of difference in someone's life. Remember that in this economic climate, many of us are a single paycheck from a similar fate.

by L.S.Erhardt on 12/14/2011 @ 12:37pm
I wish this wasn't so true.

by NineInchNachos on 12/14/2011 @ 1:18pm

by The Jinxmedic on 12/14/2011 @ 1:24pm
And there may be some truck drivers and their families, who after losing a minimum two days of pay as a result of the "occupy" Port actions, may be joining this camp. Merry Christmas, truck drivers!

by NineInchNachos on 12/14/2011 @ 1:27pm
we're all in the same camp.   switch to a credit union!  CLASS WAR!!

by L.S.Erhardt on 12/14/2011 @ 7:29pm
I fail to see how disrupting thousands of blue-collar jobs does anything but hurt the 99%.

by NineInchNachos on 12/14/2011 @ 8:31pm
they'll be good blue-collar jobs right up till the planet is a cinder or half submerged. 

by The Jinxmedic on 12/14/2011 @ 8:31pm
^ What Thorax said ^

by NineInchNachos on 12/14/2011 @ 8:37pm
{comment removed by moderator}

by Dave_L on 12/14/2011 @ 11:24pm
^What The Jinxmedic said about what Thorax said.^
What say we all consider doing something, not matter how small, for someone in our community we may not even know.  

by L.S.Erhardt on 12/14/2011 @ 11:58pm

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/15/2011 @ 10:22pm
I would like to remind Thorax that Occupy Tacoma specifically did not block the Port because it acts in accordance with the labor agreements in place.  I believe that as a member of the General Assembly that I can state with certainty that it is not Occupy Tacoma's position to disrupt any worker's opportunity for gainful employment.  Once that is done in Occupy's name in Tacoma, it is my belief that we would no longer represent the 99%.  This is a fine line we walk, creating protest situations that hopefully spark ongoing conversation for others, and creating a disruption to the detriment of others.  Occupiers in Tacoma love to respond, "We aren't "fill in the blank"" when asked why we do or don't participate in various actions.  We are Occupy Tacoma, we are actually rather nice, non-violent and very concerned about the working class as well as the economically disadvantaged, and those who appear to be doing rather well.  We are not unanimously pro-anarchy, anti-Federal Reserve, pro- or anti-capitalist.  What we all are is fed up, and certain that our country and the sense of fairness has gone off the rails.  It used to be that with hard work, one could live a comfortable life in this country.  Hopefully in our protests of the inherent unfairness of taxation, sacrifice and resource distribution, we will continue to be as fair to all constitutents under our large 99% umbrella with careful actions and a considered General Assembly.

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/15/2011 @ 10:24pm
Should have said "This is a fine line we walk, creating protest situations that hopefully spark ongoing conversation for others, and NOT creating a disruption to the detriment of others."   sorry for the confusion

by NineInchNachos on 12/15/2011 @ 11:02pm
OccupyTacoma is awesome! You are my favorite occupy location!

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 8:28am
Agreed- I was referring to the "actions" in other port cities (not Tacoma) which cost an entire day or two of wages of the poorest-paid non-union transportation workers- just in time for Christmas. Occupy Tacoma remains pleasantly civil and self policing, which makes it a rarity within the greater occupy movement.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:13am
 " It used to be that with hard work, one could live a comfortable life in this country. "  

Still is.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 9:15am
just say no to crack fredo.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:26am

My wife and I work hard and we enjoy a comfortable life. That proves it's possible.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 9:32am
people can work even harder and get nowhere too.  some people do no work the whole entire time and end up ahead of us all.  so believe your fairy tales if it helps you make sense of reality, but idle reader, there are exciting alternatives.  You only have to believe.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:39am

GrandmaInTacoma is slightly delusional. Life in the past was never as good as she makes it sound. People in the past were more frugal, many of them lived through the depression and enjoyed simple lifestyles. And, in case you didn't know it, we didn't have a global type economy during the old days. That has changed. Grandma wants to turn the clock back to 1950 but that's not going to happen.   

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 9:44am
right. so 'stay the course'  and in the future we'll be partying like its 1699! 
hope you like the taste of aristocrat nuts. 

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:48am

Grandma isn't speaking for the 99% as she seems to imply. She's only speaking for herself. We already have a system where the rich pay a disproportionate share of the taxes yet she wants the "resources redistributed." Apparently she wants some sort of communist system where everybody can be equally miserable.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:51am

I don't think we should "stay the course." RR. I think we should lower all the barriers to business formation and watch as thousands or hundreds of thousands of new businesses spring up. The idea that we can prop up our exceptional lifestyle through legislative fiat is being disproven on a daily basis.  

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 9:57am
you don't know what you're talking about.   Or another way to look at it is... your ideas are equally as valuable as Grandma's ideas.  Lets put all the ideas in the idea jar...  shake it up and see which idea comes out alive.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 9:57am
nobody knows! So let's find out. 

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 10:07am
  "our country and the sense of fairness has gone off the rails." Grandma 

Another thing that has gone off the rails is the American can-do spirit and the willingness to engage in hard work without much immediate gratification. Today's generation wants everything handed to them because of our growing sense of entitlement. There isn't ever going to be a system in place which provides middle class lifestyles to people who want to be video game testers, spoken word poets, artists, visionaries, dreamers, pontificators, and free wi-fi advocates. If your life's ambition is to do something stupid don't expect someone else to pay for your rent.

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 10:10am
Sigh. Video game testers make more per year than I do.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 10:10am
they want jobs.  are jobs entitlements?  you are insane.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 10:24am

they want jobs. RRWho is preventing them from getting jobs? Are they qualified for any jobs which are being offered? Are they willing to start small businesses and offer jobs to other people? Did they work hard in high school and become proficient in any STEM fields? Did they vote for the job killing minimum wage law? Do they understand that the union backed prevailing wage law on government projects is another job killer. Did they know that lax enforcement of immigration laws means lots of jobs are being worked under the table by illegals? Do they know that Washington State is a magnet for illegals? Are they aware that public employees are allowed to retire with enormous pensions and then take their old job back again?  

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 10:29am
insane in the membrane

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 10:36am
Another problem with the OWS movement is apparent in this thread.  

There is no coherant complaint. It's just sort of a multi purpose rant about everything and everybody. When the movement was about the governments willingness to bail out the big financial institutions there was widespread support, perhaps even 99 % support. But now it's just morphed into a grateful dead sideshow for the disaffected youth and a few aging hippies who don't like to wake up before noon. 

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 10:43am
^ ha!  ha ha!    now whose living in the '50 's ?

by KevinFreitas on 12/16/2011 @ 11:04am
I actually completely agree @fredo. OWS's message has become diluted which isn't helpful to the cause. The 1% vs. 99% message has stuck in the American lexicon which is quite an achievement but they need to stick with that and focus on gov't cozying up too closely to banks , large corporations, and the uber-rich.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:13am
 What's to dilute ?  Is dilution is in the eye of the beholder? What if Occupy is a mirror in the minds eye?  You see what you see. see? It is nothing.  it is everything. it is a cure. it is a disease. and end. a beging. Let lady anarchy out of her bottle... she is hungry for hope and change. 

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:14am
she can't help you unless you invite her in!

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 11:17am

Grandma just claimed that the OWS was not pro anarchy and RR says it is. See what I mean about incoherant message?

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:21am
and still we do nothing  www.democracynow.org/2011/12/16/headline...

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 11:22am
Award one point to Fredo.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:22am
my comments do not represent the #tacomaoccupy movement.  I am just an optimist. 

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:32am
a cheering, red cheeked spectator.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:35am
...  and unemployment isn't working

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:36am
now there is a snappy uniter, not a divider  message!  go with that. 

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 12:39pm
"Wal-Mart needs to be run out of business, its awful stores razed, the building materials recycled, the profits distributed to the millions of workers broken by Sam Walton’s monstrous, frothing greed."
inspirational! wonkette.com/458424/wal-marts-billions-a...

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 12:48pm
This is a homeless thread. I already did a WalMart thread, it is here: comics.feedtacoma.com/ocryx/ocryx-ocryx-...

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 12:48pm
once all the walmarts are torn down won't their workers be unemployed? I would have thought a $20K/yr job was better than living on the street or in Mom's basement.
Also, how come all those people living in Mom's basement are on food stamps and other government programs? Why don't the mom's provide these things instead of the taxpayers?  All those Moms need to be run out of business and their awful houses razed, and the building materials recycled and distributed to their lazy children who were broken by Mom's monstrous frothing greed.  

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 12:52pm
homeless / walmart / tomato / tomato 

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 1:01pm
We could eliminate homelessness if the mothers of  America would just open up their homes and let all the children move back in with them. And while we're at it, they should provide better food than just PB&J sandwichs and some spending money would be nice too. These people deserve the American Dream and who is better situated to provide it than the mothers? The greedy mothers won't let the kids back in because they want to use their basements for their knitting and other hobbies that greedy people engage in. Shameful.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 1:06pm
meanwhile -  Jinx!  you have two O&J cartoons in the November Wakeup253 zine!  (awesome spread sir!!! available now at dorky's) 

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 1:08pm
Very interesting...   which ones?

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 1:09pm
The American Dream tastes like Bacon.

(Or at least, it should.)

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 1:11pm
this one... 



totally jealous ! 

by The Jinxmedic on 12/16/2011 @ 1:34pm

(You and Max have a cameo in that second piece...)

Did I mention that both pen-and-ink originals are for sale?

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/16/2011 @ 3:21pm
LOL!  I step away for just a bit and I have commentators telling me what it is that I think.  :)  Charming, but inaccurate.  IMHO, Occupy is an invitation to the disaffected masses to begin having a conversation, to realize they ultimately do share the power to change this nation.  There is no protest so powerful as one that starts the populous talking.  You all make my point that the 99% (who knows, perhaps it is statistically 72%) feel like there is something seriously wrong in this country and want a change.  I offer this as fact based on nearly every poll taken in the past few years that shows a declining popularity of all areas of government when asked if they are doing a good job of representing the people.  There can be no doubt that a majority of citizens are deeply disappointed.  Occupy is an opportunity, in my mind, to get the broad range of solutions regardless of ideology or dogma out into the daylight for discussion and negotiation since our respresentational leaders will not.  I would never attempt to hang a "political point of view" with certainty on the organization, like America, the voices and opinions are many.  Let's have a talk about all of them.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 3:30pm
Grandma, you talk about the "inherent unfairness of taxation." Are you talking about the fact the we have a progressive tax system which requires people of higher incomes to pay higher tax rates and people of lower incomes to pay lower tax rates? I would have to agree that that seems inherently unfair.  

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 3:34pm
stop the 9-9-9 insanity fredo!   
The deadbeat corporate persons need to pay up.

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 4:17pm
OWS movement confusion surfacing again.
Grandma wants a flat tax
RR wants a progressive tax.
Get on the same page you guys, come on.  

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 4:20pm
oh what like the tea farty completely agrees on everything? 

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/16/2011 @ 6:25pm
Again, you prove my point.  There are any number of ideas that might work, but I'll bet we can all agree that it would be best if the tax plan worked fairly as intended.  I don't see that happening with favored tax status that allows mega corps and the uber rich to escape taxation entirely through loopholes.  I'll pull my own weight, Fredo.  I always have quite successfully, but I'd like a level playing field for a change.  How can it be fair that a corporation that destroyed the value of my home manages to pay little to no tax?  How is it that that corporation's CEO draws a salary equivalent to $40,000 for every worked hour can be considered fair distribution of wealth?  Its an insiders game for good old boys that most of us will never be invited to play.  It has little to do with whether you worked hard to achieve anything and more to do with whether your parents yachted together.  Wealth is becoming every more stratified as the uber rich continue to manufacture money from nothing at all and with no down side even in failure. 
And just so we are clear on what my personal issues under the umbrella of the 99% are:
I am for getting the money out of politics.  No one should be allowed to donate more than $100.
Corporations are not people.  Its time we quit investing corporations with rights. 
Time for a tax code simplification and rewrite.  Way too many of the wrong actors are being rewarded.  Why should we reward oil companies with tax breaks?  We should be rewarding solar energy companies if any one, but I would settle for no favoritism at all.
We need to quit visualizing some spending as costs and recognize they are investments that will pay rewards.  Infrastructure and Education are two of those investments. 
These are just a few things that I would absolutely support in the face of much opposition.  I'll bet some of you feel exactly opposite.  That's the beauty of the 99%, it is our diversity.  If our leaders wont have rational conversations on these topics, let's do it ourselves until we can get new representatives who will do the job we hired them for.

by troysworktable on 12/16/2011 @ 8:43pm
Lawyers, Gun$ and Money (@lefarkins): "If You Had Any Initiative, You'd Go Out and Inherit a Department Store" - www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/12/if-...

by fredo on 12/16/2011 @ 9:25pm
Grandma, CEOs frequently are well paid but there's only 1 CEO in the US who's paid $40,000 per hour. That level of pay isn't typical. The salaries are set by the Boards of Directors who are elected by the stockholders. Do you own stock in a corporation and have you voted your shares?

Rather than complain about what others have done and what others have earned, why not put forth some effort and try to accomplish something meaningful yourselves?  You can start your own corporation for less than $1000. Regarding the unequal distribution of wealth in our country, you know that happens in every country, even the USSR, Cuba and North Korea. Why shouldn't people who work the hardest, are the highest producers, and create innovations that improve our lives be paid more than a bunch of slackers? 

by troysworktable on 12/16/2011 @ 10:28pm
"You’re wrong, the stranger said, they’re persecuting the new brotherhood, they’re afraid of it, afraid of our old, deep, fundamental belief, our unyielding bond.  Johan Ot didn’t know that he was a member of some group, some brotherhood that was changing the world with fire and sword and faith in its own fanatical way."—page 42, The Galley Slave by Drago Jancar

by troysworktable on 12/16/2011 @ 10:39pm
I don't quite understand the OWS movement.  But they make a lot more sense to me than those who shill for the 1%.

by NineInchNachos on 12/16/2011 @ 11:00pm
OWS is like magnets--we have no idea how they really work.  fing magic of the gods! 

by L.S.Erhardt on 12/17/2011 @ 1:20am
Fredo, do you know how the Bit Torrent technology works?

Basically, it is a non-centralized network in which each computer with the particular file only needs to offer up a portion of the data for download.
So, instead of a single 100gb file coming from one machine with a 10mbps upload rate, you could have 100 machines offering up 1gb of data at 10mbps simultaneously. A decentralized network is able to deliver more data much quicker and with more stability than a single, central source.

The Occupy Movement can't have a single set of "demands" nor can it have a single representative. As a decentralized network, Occupy isn't about a single thing. It's a robust network that is able to function regardless of how many voices, how many ideas and information is being channeled through it. As thus by being decentralized, it's can't be shut down by police or thugs in jackboots. The setup is very organic.

I'm afraid you're thinking in the linear manner of standard political action. That is, You want X, so you campaign, protest etc until X is achieved and then you go home. That is why the counterculture pretty much fizzled out after the US left Vietnam. Yes, there were thousands of ideas and issues, but the single biggest objective was achieved. So now what? Head home.

The reason why that method doesn't work for Occupy is that there are so damn many problems that there isn't a single issue nor a single solution. The point is to make these voices and ideas heard whereas they might not be otherwise.

Our leadership depends 100% on Our approval or complacency to stay in their positions of power. It's been more than a generation since they last heard the Voice of the People. We have reached a point now where it's either speak up or lose it all.

by NineInchNachos on 12/17/2011 @ 1:23am
to a monarchist does direct democracy seem like anarchy? #occupy forever!

by fredo on 12/17/2011 @ 7:57am

Thorax, I'm not sure that OWS works as successfully as bitTorrent.  After a few key strokes and a few seconds bitTorrent reassembles a useful file  We don't know if OWS will provide any useful results. I actually support some of the movements objectives, I'm just not anti-capitalist.

by The Jinxmedic on 12/18/2011 @ 5:57pm
"constitutional monarchy"

by Maria on 12/18/2011 @ 7:40pm
Yeah, you have to wonder about these activists assembling, educating the masses, mobilizing, inciting crowds, complaining about unfair taxes, organizing boycotts, getting arrested, protesting corrupt legislation, disrupting commerce, damaging property, getting carried away by their enthusiasm, etc.

We could all learn a valuable lesson where this kind of audacious behavior leads to. I find it particularly shocking in examples such as the link below--the story of a bunch of troublemakers like OWS who thought they knew better than what the system had in place.


by NineInchNachos on 12/18/2011 @ 8:09pm
award + 9999999 points Maria

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 8:30am
This is exactly why OWS and the Tea Party folks should be on the same side.

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/19/2011 @ 9:01am
I love it Maria!  Thank you for the reminder, and you as well, Jinx, that America's celebrated history is built on free speech and revolution.  Free speech and taking to the streets is exactly what the 1st Amendment is about.  It's a hard concept and one that requires work.  "America is advanced citizenship.  A system that would requires me to allow you to promote that which I would spend a lifetime to oppose."  Our system is one of checks and balances that allows the radical opinions to be heard while we seek the middle that satisfies our majority.  I believe, OWS, and I know with certainty, OT, celebrates the diversity of our voices. 
Regarding investment in any system, no, grandma doesn't beleive that everyone should be rewarded equally for unequal work, nor does she support communism, capitalism, socialism or anarchy.  Like most things in this real life, absolutist concepts are rarely implementable.  We are a wild stew of humanity, a one size fits all approach unless it recognizes our diverstiy will never work.  But there is likely some fair mix of systems that might be implemented through discourse and negotiation that could allow for the following utopian ideal:
A capitalist approach to open markets that fairly prices the inputs to production including social and economic costs which are rarely included in any raw material costs.  (Example of a cost currently funded in the US is social security to provide for workers after they are "used up").  A socialist approach to ensure that no vulnerable society members fall through the cracks due to mental illness, handicap, age, etc.    And a communist system toward social governance, education, healthcare, etc. 
I'm not saying it would be a perfect system, but it would meet many of the concerns that are currently not being well met. 
Lively conversation, y'all!  keep it up!

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 9:07am
OWS and Teabaggers unite to untie the system!

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 9:29am
Agreed- but name calling still doesn't help. To wit: stop saying "teabagger", unless you are actually referring to those who engage in that particular sexual activity...

by fredo on 12/19/2011 @ 9:29am

OT is about bringing communism into our social governance and education? That will attract a lot more participants.

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 9:36am
they say the communist party of america is more popular in the polls than congress right now.   it could happen!  
OWS, TEA party and anyone who enjoys Teabagging UNITE!!! 

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 9:38am
I suppose that's better...

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/19/2011 @ 10:30am
I didn't say OT, you have misread my post.  My point of my entire conversation here bing OT is a big umbrella!  It has to be to cover the 99%.  Please read earlier for my discourse regarding Occupy being an invitation for everyone who feels like something is wrong to actively engage in the course correction. 
A communistic system with equality in education and healthcare is all Grandma's idea.  Like equality in healthcare and education could ever be a bad idea?  What fredo, your kids and grandkids deserve a better education than mine?  I suggest to you that egocentric thinking regarding the "right" to basic rights (education and healthcare) are exactly what is wrong with this world. ( Let me put GRANDMA THINKS in caps so you don't attribute it to Occupy)   GRANDMA THINKS the right to basic healthcare and education as far as one wishes to take it is a fine equalizing mechanism that will right many of our wrongs within one generation. 
I further suggest to you that by the nature of the 99%, the Teabag, Coffee Cup, Liberal, Conservative, Right, Left and any other divisive appelation you wish to hang on a group of similarly minded individuals IS EXACTLY what the 99% is.  Look at polling across the country and across the generation.  We show a continued and exponentially increasing disagreement with the way our country is being run.  That is what Occupy is about, not ideology or dogma.   Again, that is what GRANDMA THINKS exclusively. 

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 10:36am
you can write what you want grandma, and the fredo will read what he wants.

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/19/2011 @ 10:39am
LOL!  Aint it the truth, Brother!  Humans are marvelous creatures!

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 10:52am
For the umpteenth time, it's TEA PARTY, not TEA BAG. Deliberately misrepresenting a group that one doesn't necessarily agree with by assigning it a disparaging suggestive monniker is a symptom of the problem, and is not helpful.

(We have Anderson Cooper to thank for that one.)

by GrandmaInTacoma on 12/19/2011 @ 11:57am
uh oh!  Grandma's humble apologies for that slip....I think I let the usage draw me away from the correct appelation.  mea culpa.

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 1:19pm
keep off message!  for SURVIVAL !!! 

"The protest movement that began with Occupy Wall Street is very clear about what it is against - an international capitalism that is cruel, unfair and untenable. But the movement refuses to say what it is for. Much of this refusal comes from a belief that modern capitalist society is extremely skilful at co-opting dissent and that any discussion with the media is the first step in being reabsorbed into 'the system'."


by troysworktable on 12/19/2011 @ 2:19pm
"But the organization's real strength lay elsewhere—in the mind, in faith, in equality, in a profound and boundless devotion to the shared cause. Today's world was a world of terror, governed by a grander
conspiracy still. The new brotherhood would put an end to that."

—page 85, The Galley Slave by Drago Jančar.

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 3:28pm
are you enjoying the fall?  

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 3:40pm
We have been watching this slow and steady fall happening gradually over the past twenty five years. As the rate is now beginning to accelerate, people are finally noticing- and are starting to get angry.

Solution? Think locally, act locally. Forget about Arizona- IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is right here, in our own community.

by Maria on 12/19/2011 @ 3:44pm
"The difference between a movement and a large group of unhappy people is the ability to articulate specific policy goals."
--Dan Sshnur, Director of the University of Southern California’s Unruh Institute of Politics; communications director for John McCain’s 2000 presidential campaign.
(Quote from Washington Post re: OWS's vague agenda)

Occupy Wall Street needs to get more people involved who have read Tony Robbins books. You know, advice books where they talk about setting goals, keeping messages simple, working on plans one increment at a time. Idealism is wonderful, but small actions are better than noble words. (I'm all for good thinking though, don't take that wrongly.)

I can't find a great columnist's writing from earlier this year which proposed three, just three small "declarations" or action-steps OWS could focus on. Three of my suggestion would be:

1) Banking reform (re-instating some of the safeguards removed in the Clinton & Bush administration that allowed mortgage companies, banks, hedge funds to participate in risky practices that were previously forbidden)
2) Swift public prosecution of executives who knowingly defrauded the system, and increased penalties both financial and incarceration lengths to ensure these kinds of things don't happen again.
3) PR campaign to shame CEO's, legislators, bankers, etc. who have profited from, received campaign contributions from, lobby for, reaped gains from, etc. manipulating the system in unethical ways.

Other good (practical) initiatives would include pushing for more affordable education and assistance for student loan debt, national health care reform and/or campaign finance reform.

They could also work on voter registration and the election of a reformer candidate in one district. Start small and with measurable goals, then repeat that success elsewhere. The Tea Party is an excellent example of how to mobilize vague outrage into political clout.

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 3:56pm
^ Like Maria said ^

by NineInchNachos on 12/19/2011 @ 4:22pm
Greetings beautiful mutants, and how may we be of service? This is Nu-Tra for Devo Incorporated, checking in with the many factions of devolutionary humans who have waited so faithfully this past year, while Devo gathered it's strength for the next offensive. As many of you can see, the road ahead is filled with danger-its not nuclear bombs we must fear, but the human mind itself, or lack of it, on this planet. It's time to go beyond the normal thing. It's time to do the super thing. It's time for Devo, there's no question about it. The spudboys are ready, with new songs, new films, and new approches to survival in a world ruled by subhumans. Lies, lies, lies. Thats all we get from those who pretend to know but don't. But once again, Devo attempts to cut through the mental grease and grime with techniques of positive mutation, designed to protect you from the ninnies and the twits. Remember: no one knows, so let's find out. Devo asks the questions that help point us all in the right direction, to go forward, move ahead, and give the past the slip. It's time to seek out new traditions. We know where the old ones took us, and now we are all here together. So lets go. Take in the full measure of Devo's new traditionalist spirit. The vinyl record and cassette tape of Devo's latest musical outpourings is entitled simply "New Traditionalists". To purchase it is not like spending money, but rather it is an investment in the future, in a blow against the empire. This is Nu-Tra for Devo Incorporated saying bombs away.

by The Jinxmedic on 12/19/2011 @ 4:53pm
Are we not men?

by chazzmoney on 12/22/2011 @ 12:00pm
Fredo - I agree with almost every single item you have written with one exception:

We already have a system where the rich pay a disproportionate share of the taxes yet she wants the "resources redistributed."

I would like to see evidence that the rich pay an unfair share of taxes.  Please share?

Bonus points if you can give evidence that such an unfair share is harmful to society rather than helpful.

by fredo on 12/22/2011 @ 12:46pm
Chaszz, I didn't say the rich pay an "unfair share of taxes."

I said the rich pay a "disproportinate share of taxes"

Fairness indicates a subjective comparison while disproportionate indicates an objective comparison.

You understand the difference don't you?

by fredo on 12/22/2011 @ 12:49pm

  Here are the tax rate schedules for 2011:Single Filing Status
  • 10% on a yearly income of $0 - $8,500
  • 15% on a yearly income of $8,501 - $34,500
  • 25% on a yearly income of $34,501 - $83,600
  • 28% on a yearly income of $83,601 - $174,400
  • 33% on a yearly income of $174,401 - $379,150
  • 35% on a yearly income of $379,150 or higher

by chazzmoney on 12/22/2011 @ 1:08pm
Got it.  The implication of unfair was my interpretation of what you said.  Do you consider these tax rates fair or unfair?

So, when you said disproportionate, you mean the tax bracket is the cause of this - and the proportion is taxes paid to income earned?

Alos, I like your shortening of my nickname. I've never seen it before, only C$, or Chazz$.

by fredo on 12/22/2011 @ 1:39pm
The tax brackets are just the most obvious instance of disproportionality. The rich also pay the most in capital gains taxes and excise taxes and we know this because low income people have minimal exposure to any capital gain or any excise tax.. I don't have any problem with wealthier Americans paying a larger proportion of the taxes then poor people. The brackets are probably OK right now but the tax code is so complex it's hard to say with any certainty.