0
Share
Ocryx and Joe
Ocryx and Joe investigate local spending priorities
Well, at least it good to support local business- wait, what?
posted Jan 26, 2011
Sizes:
web |
email |
print
Because shutting down two branch libraries (including one very popular branch that serves as a community cornerstone for the highly profiled Salishan project) to make a vehicle purchase at nearly twice the cost of the savings from the library closures makes sense. I suppose that if a local car dealership was in financial straits, the purchase could be justified to support the local economy- but that is not the case. The dealership is in Longview, which is several counties away and not exactly local.
Solution? Delay the vehicle purchase a year or two, fund the libraries, and get the cars later. Does parking enforcement really need to be driving around in $30,000 electric Nissan Leafs right now? How about a nice electric Cushman cart like other cities use? How about waiting a year or two? How about supporting LOCAL business?
(Bonus strip on this subject shortly.)
Comments [45]
 by KevinFreitas on 1/26/2011 @ 7:14am | Wow, that's intense. Thx for pulling back the curtain on this O&J. It is a shame to close libraries -- especially those in neighborhoods that could use it the most. The MLK branch is in a stupid location -- nearly in accessible -- but there are plenty of empty spaces nearby that would do just fine. Screw electric cars in general. Let's encourage the city to buy bikes for employees. Wellness, Earth-, and money-saving all at once! |
 by Mofo from the Hood on 1/26/2011 @ 7:42am | Let's encourage the meter maids and cops to carpool their calls. |
 by NineInchNachos on 1/26/2011 @ 7:49am | let them drive segways |
by Mofo from the Hood on 1/26/2011 @ 8:08am | Let's start by reducing Tacoma's electric car radio-frequency footprint.
|
 by The Jinxmedic on 1/26/2011 @ 8:10am |  |
 by narndt on 1/26/2011 @ 8:21am | @KF I'm with you on the bikes! Remember a few years back when the city got that small bike fleet? Whatever happened to those? Did anyone use them? Were they stolen?
I guess I don't understand why these cars couldn't have been purchased locally. Apparently Nissan/Ford/whatever doesn't have a "state contract?" Or maybe this dealership in Longview holds the state contract for Nissan AND Ford? Seems really unlikely. |
 by thriceallamerican on 1/26/2011 @ 9:07am | I'll just toss out (with absolutely no actual knowledge of the true situation) that the Nissan Leaf is brand spankin' new, and Joe Carbuyer has to be on a waiting list to get the thing. Perhaps only certain Nissan stealerships are set up for fleet sales of the Leaf? Maybe they come in via rail to the Port of Longview? There may be practical and unavoidable reasons. I don't know any better than anyone else, and nothing wrong with questioning the circumstances, but I'd prefer we know the facts before we go in to full-tilt whining mode. |
by The Jinxmedic on 1/26/2011 @ 9:17am | Not whining. Just questioning spending priorities during a time when the city is cutting essential services due to self-caused budget shortfalls. We saw this last year with the new furniture.
Have a budget surplus? Buy all the $30,000 electric and hybrid cars you want. Have a deficit? Cut back on new expenditures and concentrate on core services- ( things like "schools" and "libraries" come to mind...) ...not some "feel good" not-really-as-green-as-you-pretend-it-is selection of new hybrid and electric vehicles that you can easily put off for a few more years until revenues are up. |
by thriceallamerican on 1/26/2011 @ 9:48am | Not making any direct accusations, Jinx, just a general observation that often FT and other online forums go into echo-chamber mode on stuff like this. |
by The Jinxmedic on 1/26/2011 @ 10:14am | Well, true- we of the CLAW do our best to instigate blind panic and utter chaos whenever and wherever possible. |
by thriceallamerican on 1/26/2011 @ 10:26am | And we all respect your for it. |
by The Jinxmedic on 1/26/2011 @ 10:26am | ;-) |
 by Earthdaughter on 1/26/2011 @ 10:40am | Is this a done deal or is there time for a protest? I agree that this is untimely and way over the top. They could set up a program at Bates to convert the current fleet to electric at about $10,000 per vehicle. That would support some Washington companies who sell the parts, some local talent who already know how to do these conversions, and train a lot of local students for green jobs. I would rather convert my Geo to electric then buy a new car for 3x the cost. Win, win, win to do retrofits. |
by NineInchNachos on 1/26/2011 @ 11:50am | Hey, the city council reads your comics!
www.exit133.com/6129/tacoma-city-council... |
by narndt on 1/26/2011 @ 1:05pm | Question: are the electric vehicles specifically being purchased for parking enforcement? What's really annoying to me is that it's really easy to justify spending when there's a warm, fuzzy, hip, sexy, "green" outer coating. In this case that outer coating is the Nissan Leaf. If you want an electric vehicles, how about a electric-assisted bike? 1/15th or so the cost of a Leaf. Someone tell me why a parking enforcement worker couldn't get around town on a bike on a decent day. |
 by jenyum on 1/26/2011 @ 1:27pm | The key part of the resolution:
"budgeted from the Fleet Equipment Rental Capital Outlay Fund" I doubt the Fleet Equipment Rental Capital Outlay Fund money can be used to fund libraries, I don't know but it sounds unlikely. Questions worth asking (although apparently the resolution already passed last night) Good questions worth asking in any kind of situation like this, before protesting: - what is the source of the funding and is this money which could legally be used for other things and if so, what other things? (In other words, is there any point to wishing we could spend it on libraries if that's not on the table? Or could we do as Earthdaughter suggested and find a creative way to use what we already have in a more sustainable fashion?) - what cost savings (if any) would the city be looking at in the long-term through this purchase? In this circumstance - how much are the fuel costs for non-electric cars vs energy costs for electric, and how are these projected to change over time? It could be they cost about as much as fueling up with gas or it could be they would pay for themselves in energy savings, I don't know but I'm sure that research has been done. Ask your city council member to dig it up for you. -Are there any truly local sources equipped to sell 10+ electric powered vehicles in one shot, and how would the cost of doing business with them compare with the cost of doing business in Longview? - If the issue is just a matter of a local company not having the contract, how could our economic development department help facilitate more local businesses qualifying for state contracts? Is there a need to provide technical assistance for the application process or to make local businesses more aware of these opportunities? What could Tacoma do differently from now on to make it more likely that a local company could win one of these large contracts in the future? |
 by cisserosmiley on 1/27/2011 @ 1:56pm | re: "I doubt the Fleet Equipment Rental Capital Outlay Fund money can be used to fund libraries, I don't know but it sounds unlikely."
this is what an astute politician does - moves the cashola from a place citizens care squat about right now to a fund that is popular at the moment...making them a political legend/hero...it's sad our council is full of inept politicians hamstrung by their own fears of "losing" A legend would "find" or "move" or "re-alocate" that cash and let the courts figure it out after they are dead or at least out of office. our council however is full of career politicians that all want to go on to bigger political jobs, and none will risk the potential failure of such a brash move. the irony is this brash move is what makes a politician great. WE lose again so they can win another election... |
by jenyum on 1/27/2011 @ 5:00pm | Cissero: Do you know that that actually happened? I am sure that you could find out where the money came from before it was in the fleet fund. Without that information it's not appropriate to be making accusations. |
by cisserosmiley on 1/27/2011 @ 5:25pm | jenyum: do i know that what happened? if you read again im sure it is clear i am asking for a current politician to do something big courageous and possibly slightly against the letter of the statute, but within the spirit of the community said politicians SERVE? so i guess no one has done anything...that is the problem...i am proposing the fleet fund BE moved NOT that is was moved...sorry if that wasn't clear. |
 by fredo on 1/27/2011 @ 5:37pm | One way to prevent people from questioning political decision making is to make sure that decision making in general and budget making in particular remains as complicated as possible. The more layers of complexity, the better. Why do you think the city council and mayor refuse to produce a simple listing of priorities from most important to least important? I guess it's better to feel that your elected officials are inept rather than to have it proven. |
by jenyum on 1/27/2011 @ 5:43pm | Cissero: We still need to know where the money came from and what restrictions are on it. Can't move money that you can't legally move.
@fredo: should the city's budget be simple? When did the city council and the mayor refuse to produce a list of priorities? Did somebody ask for that? I'm not defending this buying decision but I'm not attacking it either because I don't actually know enough about it to do either thing. |
by fredo on 1/27/2011 @ 5:58pm | I've asked for the list of city priorities many times in this forum. I've never heard squat. Not surprising, one way to distinguish liberals is to ask for a list of priorities. For a liberal, all spending is a prioritiy of the highest order.
If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority. Well, our entire civic structure may end up vanquished, but at least we'll have some stylin' new wheels for our officials to flit about in. |
by cisserosmiley on 1/27/2011 @ 6:20pm | lawmakers(leg), gave local statute writers(our council) the legal ability to resolve our budget. if our statutes will not allow for this transfer, the council can motion and vote a change to such statute. |
by jenyum on 1/27/2011 @ 7:38pm | Not necessarily. I'm currently seeking clarification on this issue because things are rarely that cut and dry. For example, in the arena of school funding it is not legal for the school district to use money from the sale of real estate to fund instruction. Building money must remain building money, etc. It would be similarly illegal to use instructional funding from the state for building projects.
We don't know where this money came from: federal stimulus funds? Money from some past bond measure? Who was taxed and when often controls how the money can be used. It could also be totally free and clear general fund money. I don't know. Do you? |
by cisserosmiley on 1/27/2011 @ 8:38pm | yes, you are correct, there are technical controls on funding. this is why i said...
from above: "..."re-alocate" that cash and let the courts figure it out after they(our elected officials)are dead or at least out of office." |
by jenyum on 2/1/2011 @ 3:08pm | I received some answers about this, which raised other questions. I'll report back when I know more. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/1/2011 @ 3:47pm | awesome. nice work comrades. |
by cisserosmiley on 2/1/2011 @ 4:09pm | we might need a good ol fashion iran-contra reagan resolution...mr fey is the logical engineer, he is near the end of his political career so future ramifications will be minimal and he has the most juice. Spiro is next choice, he is even nearer to the end of his council service and likely has little future use as politician fodder. these two dudes are they key to moving funds to bring rationality to tacoma's spending. they will need help from one in the city attorney's office. the FACT that this is how gov works is why when this scenario arises in all other fields we smooth it over by saying that was a "POLITICAL" decision...you know, they fired the good guy and promoted the lazy dude-politics...in politics, no one says that. it is just a days work. |
by The Jinxmedic on 2/1/2011 @ 4:17pm | According to the Tacoma Weekly, Council members Boe and Campbell were the only two on the council to vote against the purchase of the Nissan Leafs.
If the city was flush with money, I would be all behind this purchase. Guess what? We're not flush with money right now. Kudos to Boe and Campbell for voting responsibly. |
by cisserosmiley on 2/1/2011 @ 4:23pm | in all seriousness, there has been less attention on the upcoming "dip" that is highly probable. i would encourage everyone to keep a careful watch on their finances, both personal and large institutions, over the next 6-12 months.
i second the kudos for mr boe and mr campbell. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/1/2011 @ 4:45pm | I can see doing ONE electric beetle from our go local EV leaf beetle company as a flag ship meter maid electric car... |
by fredo on 2/1/2011 @ 4:53pm | This wonderful thread is really pointing out an economic reality.
Our society can have either lots of expensive gadgets and some highly paid employees along with low service levels or We can have few gadgets, lots of modestly paid employees and high service levels. You cannot have both. |
by jenyum on 2/1/2011 @ 5:30pm | The fabulous Mr. Marty Campbell passed along my questions, which were answered today by some folks at the city: Would you happen to know the original funding source for the money in the fleet fund, where it came from and what restrictions there were if any on the use of the funds? Background Information: Thank you for getting back to me so quickly on this. I hate to follow up your answers with more questions, but having established that it is (or would have been) possible to reassign these funds there are a few more questions I'm sure I will be asked: Regarding the purchase of Nissan Leafs, what cost savings (if any) would the city be looking at in the long-term through this purchase? Is there an immediate monetary savings in energy costs for non-electric cars vs energy costs for electric, and how are these projected to change over time? Were there any local bidders for this fleet purchase, and if so what prompted the decision to go with a company in Longview? It is no problem at all to answer additional questions on this subject. The attached memo to the City Manager, which was given to the City Council on January 25th, 2011, provides answers to your questions related to costs. There is also additional information in the memo which you may find useful. Fleet Purchase Cost Memo ------------------------------------------ So, the bottom line is: yes, the money could be reassigned to the general fund, or could have been until the council passed the resolution. Yes, there are some life cycle cost savings associated with the Leaf vs. the Prius, but these are quite small. I don't see the figures for the Leaf vs. a standard gas vehicle but presumably the fuel savings would be more significant. No, there weren't any local bidders and the contract was awarded by the state. |
by jenyum on 2/1/2011 @ 5:40pm | I can't copy and paste from the PDF, but read the paragraph beginning with "Timing" which explains the city's intent to apply for EPA grant money for electric car charging stations. |
by cisserosmiley on 2/1/2011 @ 6:01pm | if it's too late for a motion to move money to general fund...maybe we can sell advert space on the new LEAFs. i would buy happily. then use that revenue to purchase the ONE electric beetle. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/2/2011 @ 12:56pm | Councilmember Marty Campbell said that he was excited to see electric vehicles added to the city's fleet, but was concerned about purchasing 10 vehicles at once. "The current rotation cycle is 11 years," he said. "I think back to the cell phone I had in 2000 and what my cell phone is like today and all the advancements that happened along that time and how much I had to upgrade that. What I would prefer to see us do is perhaps look at getting five to six at this point and then as more product lines come out -- Ford rolls theirs out, the Chevy Volt comes out -- we look at some of those and keep staggering them in and make sure we're positioned across the broad spectrum with the diversity of the market."
Councilmember David Boe, who introduced the motion to amend the resolution, wanted to study the issue further. "When we're looking at making significant purchases like this -- and to our average constituent, if you can pay $9,000 more per vehicle that is comparable -- wow, where is the payback on that?" said Councilmember Boe. "I want to see where that is. I understand the whole focus and we want purchasing to be thinking this way and that will be applauded. But we also have to be very smart. Sometimes we can get in a loop where it is really cool. We don't want to do things that are cool. We want to do things that are smart and have incredible value so we can say to our constituents, 'Yes, here is the payback on it, these are real numbers, and this is why it is.' Then it is like, 'Ah, that makes sense. That is a better way to self-sustainability with the real hard value aspect.'" READ MORE: www.tacomadailyindex.com/portals-code/li... |
by NineInchNachos on 2/2/2011 @ 1:01pm | there are some great quotes in that link above... scroll to the bottom!
|
by The Jinxmedic on 2/2/2011 @ 1:55pm | Say goodbye to Swan Creek branch library, it's probably closed for good now. All those Salishan people better take their lumps and find somewhere else to do their stupid employment searches. But at least we'll strike a victory for PR0GR3SS (apologies to RR) and when they overstay their 2 hour parking limit at the main library, we will have the satisfaction of knowing that they will be ticketed via an un-needed electric vehicle fleet! |
by NineInchNachos on 2/3/2011 @ 12:49pm | main library is no longer open past 6 pm. |
by Mofo from the Hood on 2/3/2011 @ 1:05pm | Cut some branches to save the vine, if need be.
Why is the stem, the main library getting the knife? Somebody call a community garden advocate! |
by The Jinxmedic on 2/3/2011 @ 2:05pm | Some extra TAGRO will do it... |
by Mofo from the Hood on 2/3/2011 @ 9:51pm | Yes Jinxmedic, TAGRO is at the root of Tacoma's new economy.
The City of Tacoma invents super-garbage and then spends countless dollars promoting it with printed leaflets stuffed in utilities bills---TAGRO is a solution in need of a problem. So next the City of Tacoma invents a problem---a need for community gardens---which TAGRO can be applied as a substitute for real dirt. Have you ever drank Super-Garbage Tea made from plants nourished with TAGRO? After two sips you start saying things like "People don't need libraries.," and "The meaning of life is battery power." |
by cisserosmiley on 2/4/2011 @ 4:39am | senator shin wants school buses to have adverts on them
dlr.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/default.aspx?... why can't the city of tacoma LEAF's have adverts on them? |
by The Jinxmedic on 2/4/2011 @ 6:32am | I can see the advertisements on this fleet of $30,000 Leafs-
"Enrich yourself- Read. Visit the Seattle City Library System". |
by cisserosmiley on 2/4/2011 @ 10:11am | "GO LOCAL - SHOP FIFE" |
| Sign In to Comment: |