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Ocryx and Joe
A New Day for Freighthouse Square?
Because this place should really work.
posted Jul 21, 2010
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Freighthouse Square could easily become a focal zone for people transiting the rails in the Dome District, but for some reason it fails to connect with the small businesses that it needs. Could it be the rents?
The Grubworm is coming! Perhaps this is an opportunity?
Comments [39]
 by KevinFreitas on 7/21/2010 @ 7:06am | Freighthouse has been doomed likely for many reasons and rent is definitely one of them. The layout and smell of the place are a couple others. Plus, commuters in the area don't really want to/aren't compelled to stop. They just want to zip from their train/bus/link straight to the cars without a meandering stop at a random banner or incense hawker. It's unfortunate but, other than the food court, I don't think there's any way for that place to sustain or, even better, thrive as a shopping destination. My idea is to turn the place into a destination for alt sports year-round indoors. Climbing walls. Skateboarding. Paintball. Airsoft. And, heck, leave the food court for hungry commuters and alt sports patrons alike. |
 by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 7:20am | Could be a rent issue or the smell issue.
But look around Tacoma. There is a lot of vacant retail everywhere. The real problem IMO is that retail is a very tough way to make a living. And brick and mortar retail is especially tough. The city could encourage retail by eliminating the city b&o tax (which is tax on gross revenue) and by decreasing by whatever means possible the local sales tax, the local property tax, and the local personal property tax. Brick and mortar retail is going to continue to tank unless someone gets the message. |
 by NineInchNachos on 7/21/2010 @ 7:53am | 1. fix the honey-bucket stink
2. gut the whole thing and start fresh... the half-wall-stall layout is unsettling. 3. rip out all the creepy his/hers restroom signage and burn them in a giant heap 4. focus on teenagers... right now most of the shops are geared towards old people... or lobotomy victims. |
 by tacoma1 on 7/21/2010 @ 8:04am | Fredo, The city of Kent managed to build a successful TOD shopping district around the Kent Sounder Station. They put in new buildings, new restaurants, new cinemas. Kent Station has become a hub of activity where there once was nothing. Commuters stay, shoppers and diners arrive. kentstation.com/ In Tacoma, we can't figure out why old crappy retail, a few worn out hookers, fast food with no private place to sit, and no entertainment venues won't draw people or retain commuters. If Kent's tax rates are significantly different than Tacoma's, then you may have a point. Otherwise, the problem is, the smell, and the poor quality of the stores and food. The rental rates in Bellevue Square certainly aren't low. And that place thrives because Kemper Freeman has made it an attractive and stylish place to be at. If the rent seems too high at FHS, it could simply be because the place has nothing that makes it compelling enough to go to or stay at once your there. FHS needs to be gutted. |
by NineInchNachos on 7/21/2010 @ 8:31am | amen! |
 by Jesse on 7/21/2010 @ 8:45am | Nobody lives in that area and it's a bit creepy at night.
Make the square have bigger stores and roll-up garage doors to face the street or trains. Open up the feel of the place but more importantly, get others with big bucks to invest in the area in the form of housing and hotels. Just my opinion. |
 by daubermaus on 7/21/2010 @ 8:49am | The rents at Frieghthouse (last year) were almost on par with the Tacoma Mall when they should be much closer to Sanford and Sons. |
by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 8:49am | "Located in the heart of downtown Kent, Kent Station is conveniently located " from the KS website.
Big difference there tacoma1. FHS is inconveniently located in a desolate backwater of light industrial and parking lots. There's no residential and the few people who live within walking distance use the city mission as their mailing address. We might want to look as some demographic tracts comparing downtown Kent and Bellevue Square with the Dome District before dismissing my arguments. |
 by The Jinxmedic on 7/21/2010 @ 9:09am | While we wait for the hopeful eventual transformation of the space, local businesses could be immediately helped by offering lower rents again to support the "local boutique" market that it originally supported. Many a local business have been chased out of FHS by skyrocketing rents, leaving the place an empty shell for the most part. Jesse has the right idea- roll up doors facing the street would make the whole atmosphere more inviting. When the LeMay Grubworm opens, there will be increased foot traffic between the Sounder / LINK station and the LeMay complex. As we all know, Tacoma is under-hotelled, and the Dome district along with Foss Waterway is logical expansion area for lodging space. This will be one last opportunity for FHS to "get it right". We will see if they do... |
by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 9:16am | The rents at Frieghthouse (last year) were almost on par with the Tacoma Mall when they should be much closer to Sanford and Sons. daubermaus Ha. thats funny. One of my friends had a shop at sanfords. She sold nick nacks and had days where the business did $20-50. Although sanfords and FHS have the basic look and funky charm of the Pike Place Market, they are missing one important element...foot traffic. " "When there are no feet on the floor there's no money in the drawer" fredo's first rule of retail. |
 by Thorax O'Tool on 7/22/2010 @ 12:01am | It's late so I'll spare you my opinion... for now.
I'll delve into it tomorrow after work |
by tacoma1 on 7/22/2010 @ 8:43am | Kent Station isn't any closer to neighborhoods than FHS. No one lives in Kent Valley. Nothing but alot of warehouses and office parks in the immediate vicinity. The FHS building has become nothing but a smelly eyesore. When I'm there, all I want to do is walk thru it as fast as possible. The only nice part of the building is that foyer portion that ST put in for the Sounder commuters. As soon as you walk into any other portion of the building, it feels creepy. It doesn't matter how much the rent is, how low the taxes are, or how cheap the food is. Mainstream shoppers and diners will not patronize a toilet. Clean it up, obtain one large anchor retailer to locate in the Dome District which will draw foot traffic (like a Safeway, Costco, Home Depot, Mclendon's). Then put quality shops and decent restaurants in and around FHS. Shops that people use daily, like a dry cleaners, a drugstore like Bartells or Walgreens, and then the place will thrive, and the current rents will all of a sudden seem too cheap. |
 by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/22/2010 @ 10:34am | tacoma1, why do you hate Safeway, Costco, HomeDepot, Mclendon's, Bartells or Walgreens? |
by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 2:02pm | I'd love to see some of the transit commuters trying to wrestle some sheets of plywood or sheetrock back on to the transit vehicle following a convenient shopping trip. |
by tacoma1 on 7/22/2010 @ 2:17pm | Crenshaw, That's funny. Apparently I don't like dry cleaners much either. We could also put a zip car spot down there for incoming Amtrak passengers once Amtrak makes it's move to FHS. Fredo Actually, since Home Depot rents trucks, folks that arrive on transit could easily pick up all the essentials they need and truck them home. When I buy big stuff, since I don't own a truck, I either have it delivered or rent a truck anyway. |
by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 2:29pm | I'll guarantee if they put a Home Depot next to the sounder that cheapskate and clueless commuters will be lugging building materials on board with them. Who's going to rent a truck when they're only bringing home a half dozen 2x4s, a few pounds of fasteners and a 5 gallon bucket of paint? |
by tacoma1 on 7/22/2010 @ 3:25pm | While trying to ignoring the fact that fredo just called every commuter a cheapskate and clueless. I would generally assume that most people would drive to a big box store to shop. Some clued in, transit oriented shoppers (with extra cash in their pockets since they don't waste 10% or more of their income on the freeway) may stop in to pick up smaller items, but most would certainly drive. Let's look at El Gaucho, or Pacific Grill for two local successful examples on what to do with old buildings in Tacoma. Situated about a mile away, in what used to be old beat up worn out warehouses. These places where both gutted, dressed to the nines, and people get treated like royalty when the arrive. It isn't the locations, or low prices, the low rent, or the low Tacoma taxes that make these restaurants successful. It's the fact that they are unique, super clean, have great food, and great service. So once again, it's not the taxes, it's not transit's fault, it's not the rent. It's the fact that there is no compelling reason to stay at FHS for any length of time whatsoever. You can't sell me a sandwich cheap enough if I have to eat it in a sewer. |
by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 4:02pm | Ha, well I guess my sentence construction wasn't so good there. Good catch tacoma1.
You know, I agree with a lot of what you have to say. Old buildings which are extensively gentrified will tend to be more attractive to shoppers than places which smell a little gamey. That's understandable. But we've been waiting years for private investment to pick up the development gauntlet in Tacoma's Dome District. Apparently, market conditions will not allow it. Therefore, for Tacoma to awaken some retail it needs to do something proactive. Lowering taxes will make business plans begin to pencil out. Lower property taxes will make rents more affordable. I'd rather have retail spaces filled in Tacoma offering second rate shopping experiences over having acres of vacant space that generate no taxes or community building activity whatsoever. And those smells people keep referring to as toilet-like or sewage like: that's ethnic cooking. Better be careful, you might run afoul of the feedtacoma racial sensitivity posse. |
by tacoma1 on 7/22/2010 @ 4:06pm | Actually Fredo, I've been in the restrooms at FHS. Pretty sure that the odors were originating there. And after washing my hands in said restroom, I felt a powerful urge to wash again. |
by The Jinxmedic on 7/22/2010 @ 5:23pm | That's why the rents are too high. |
by tacoma1 on 7/23/2010 @ 6:16am | I would then suggest that when a new owner for FHS is found, that we provide a 10 year tax moratorium on any building improvements that they make.
I would also suggest a large nuisance tax if the new owner continues to let the place run into the ground. |
 by ixia on 7/23/2010 @ 8:05am | Why not follow the thinking of the Washington State History Museum? Build a wrought iron fence from the train platform through the shops and restaurants and then back out to parking. If you force the people to take this detour they surely will open their wallets, no? |
by fredo on 7/23/2010 @ 8:20am | Apparently the thing most people associate FHS with is a toilet smell.
Let's capitalize on this association. Let's change the name of the place to Outhouse Square. Give them a 10 year tax moritorium to put in beautiful restrooms, in fact they could have pay toilets. Who wouldn't pay a dollar to use an immaculate restroom over a third world style open latrine? Serve free bean burritos on the sounder train so that by the time the commuters get to OHS they are practically ready to explode. Would give a whole new meaning to the city of destiny. |
 by Dave_L on 7/23/2010 @ 12:57pm | Re the smell, one tenant told me he was packing up to another location mainly because he felt that the location was actually making him physically ill. Sounds plausible, but I don't know how true it is or if anyone else shared that feeling. I always dug the old RxR photos of the Hiawatha and such at the FHS. Didn't FHS change ownership a few years ago? I went to a few kids activities they scheduled there from time, with door prizes donated by the tenants, but it was sad, not many people ever came out. |
 by froggy57 on 1/10/2011 @ 1:46pm | I have tried to talk to FHS owners about renting a space there.
Answered their ads on craigslist. etc. The gal who negotiates the rents is hamstrung by her managment and has to b.s. people about the great business opportunity, although anyone who has any knowledge of the place knows that the turnover is horrific and it is a place where businesses go to die. Because... drum roll please... The rents are ridiculously high. As for the people who talk about the smell.. they toilets are always clean. The odor is probably in your yuppie mind. If you want Nordstrom, go to Nordstrom. If you want funky interesting shops go to a place like FHS. How to fix FHS? Easy.. it is NOT to 'fix it up'..That would just raise the rents. Leave it like it is and drop the rents to $300 a month with the first month free and only $300 up front to move in. And SPEND SOME MONEY ON ADVERTISING.. Do some creative advertising to put the place on the map. Nothing goes on there... Give some bands free space to showcase their talent. Or hire a top bank to come there after hours. The place closes at about four in the afternoon. Give a good restaurant some dirtcheap rent.. but not like the front space that was occupied as a restaurant before. Put it in the back so people have to walk past all the shops. Throw out all the shops that close so early and get some business oriented individuals in there. End of rant. |
by froggy57 on 1/10/2011 @ 1:56pm | Sorry about all the misspelling. Type too fast. :o)
FHS has space for many shops and if the rent was $300 a month like it should be, the place would fill up overnight and be cooking! Take $50 of each spaces rent each month and advertise with it. But for Gods sake, don't do the usual adv like, Good food, cheap prices, great selection. That kind of tired old chop just rolls off peoples mind like the water off a ducks back. If you are going to advertise, make people stop and say, "What did they just say?" Or 'How can they do that", etc. When a big band comes to the Dome, they always a lesser bank to open for them. Hire the lesser bank to do a gig at FHS the next day. Why not? They are already in town and would probably do it for a reasonable fee. And capitalize on the adv that done the previous week for the big band.. George Jones act was preceeded by Joe Smith and the Rockets, etc.. hear them this week end at FHS. Free parking. Happy hour prices on drinks. $1 dollar foot long hot dogs. See famous belly dancers, clowns, baloon shaping artists, etc.. Put some freaking life in the place!!!! |
by froggy57 on 1/10/2011 @ 2:02pm | That would be 'lessor band' not bank.
Although that would be another good idea.. give the banks and insurance companies free space for special events to hawk their services... on the condition that they advertise their coming presence there for the event on radio or TV or a space in the news trib. If anyone ever reads the trib anymore. Put some search lights out for the big event. Have the radio station that you adv the event on, put up a booth and broad cast live from FHS. Let the Fire department sit a few of their big trucks out front and collect donations for their causes.. activity. People are drawn to activity. I use to talk my friends into parking their second car in front of my store when possible, because people see a lot of cars out front and balloons and flags flying, they WILL get down and come in. |
by froggy57 on 1/10/2011 @ 2:26pm | I guarantee you, I could fill that place up with shops in 30 days and it would be cooking.
This is not Nordstroms. It has the fleamarket ambience and should stick with that. There is space for a few hundred shops in there. Times $300 a shop. After it is cooking, and small business people are lined up to get in, in 60 days, raise the rent another $50 a month. Then in 90 days, raise it again to $400. Then see where it goes from there. Taking $50 from each shop for advertising would be $10 grand a month for advertising budget. I could smoke that place for a $10 grand a month adv budget. Airplane banners for special events.etc. I could put up a smoking website for that kind of money with thousands of viewers a day. |
by ixia on 1/10/2011 @ 2:32pm | "I use to talk my friends into parking their second car in front of my store when possible"
Can we please have you be the new Tacoma Parking Czar? Eric Anderson is doing the exact opposite and then they wonder why it does not work. Human behavior draws people to the action. If it looks busy, it will get busy. I think your concept is simple and genius. |
by froggy57 on 1/10/2011 @ 4:25pm | Thanks.
The flea market swap meet concept is as old as civilization and probably will never go out of style. why not concentrate on utilizing the power of that ancient draw in stead of trying to make a silk purse out of sows ear? Keep the look of the place. That is its appeal. Some Nordstrom types don't like FHS or anything like it. Fine. Focus on appealing to the people to the people who DO like FHS type of malls. I go over to the flea market at the old Star Lite Drivein, and it is always booming.. My brother works a flea market in Az that has 300,000 people a week end. Clearly the market potential of modality is alive and well |
by The Jinxmedic on 1/10/2011 @ 4:32pm | Now if they could only drop the rents, they could make that work.... |
by NineInchNachos on 1/10/2011 @ 8:08pm | Froggy I like your rapid fire style |
by NineInchNachos on 8/10/2011 @ 8:39am | www.thenewstribune.com/2011/08/10/177721... |
by NineInchNachos on 11/2/2011 @ 8:46am | update! www.tacomadailyindex.com/portals-code/li... |
by The Jinxmedic on 11/2/2011 @ 8:49am | Not really a surprise, but we shall see what happens... |
by The Jinxmedic on 11/2/2011 @ 8:50am | These "stack overflow at line xx" messages are starting to get on my nerves. |
by NineInchNachos on 11/2/2011 @ 8:54am | too bad Old City Hall wasn't foreclosed before winter |
by The Jinxmedic on 11/2/2011 @ 5:35pm | No Old City Hall by spring. Eric Anderson gets the last laugh. |
 by low bar on 11/2/2011 @ 5:51pm | "In Tacoma, we can't figure out why old crappy retail, a few worn out hookers, fast food with no private place to sit, and no entertainment venues won't draw people or retain commuters." that is poetry |
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